Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion, other people's opinions about how I program are worth just about nothing. I'll never understand the sort of arrogance that leads to posting things like that. do you really believe you're so smart that you figured out the only way anyone should do anything?
Well, I wasn't trying to be arrogant.. sorry. But would you really take a programming class taught by a professor who doesn't know how to use a terminal?
Why I can’t stop using Vim
141–150 of 169 posts
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#142I spent this entire weekend setting up Evil mode for Emacs, in the Emacs Starter Kit package. It's been decent so far. Evil mode is surprisingly good, and I really don't think it could come any closer to vim emulation for Emacs. Took a lot of googling around to set up some basic plugins that I need - projectile for CtrlP etc. I think the only thing that I need atm is Magit integration with Evil and I'll be good to go…
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#143I spent this entire weekend setting up Evil mode for Emacs, in the Emacs Starter Kit package. It's been decent so far. Evil mode is surprisingly good, and I really don't think it could come any closer to vim emulation for Emacs. Took a lot of googling around to set up some basic plugins that I need - projectile for CtrlP etc. I think the only thing that I need atm is Magit integration with Evil and I'll be good to go…
Do you happen to have some resources you can share? I've been playing with Tidal, a live-coding library and it wants me to use Emacs, and I just... can't. So any info on setting up evil-mode would be great, especially since it's fresh in your mind. I've found some resources but really don't know where to start.
1. Install emacs. Start emacs. "Alt-x package-install" press enter "evil" press enter.
2. Open your .emacs or .emacs.d/init.el.
(require 'evil)
(evil-mode 1)
Done.Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#144> and ‘Esc’ to move around again. For me personally this is the reason I stopped using Vi(m) except for occasional config file editing on unfamiliar servers, and started looking elsewhere (Emacs) for my goto text editor. I'm not looking to switch, but it genuinely interests me how Vi users put up with the constant need to strain their pinky to switch to command mode.
Is it any different from how emacs users put up with Ctrl/Alt?
You aren't looking to switch, but if anybody is, install this https://github.com/tpope/vim-rsi for basic keybinding in insert mode. This is quite a short file. If you want, you can simply copy it to your .vimrc. For non-basic movement/editing, switch to normal mode and edit.
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because as a programmer your time is dominated by editing rather than creating text, therefore it is more efficient for every key to default to direct access to an editing function.
That's too broad of a stroke on what a programmer does with text. It's not just about editing. It's also about (a) moving to the point where you want to edit, (b) moving to an other point right after you just finished editing. Switching between the two becomes harder when you always have to Escape, compared to having direct access to an arrow key. And (c) about editing. Why type an extra character (i for insert) to l…
But I'll elaborate on your points:
> It's not just about editing. It's also about (a) moving to the point where you want to edit
This is implicitly part of editing. vim offers more ways to move than any other editor, this goes directly to my point. Whereas in most editors you are crippled without a mouse, or at least clumsily moving around with arrow keys plus chords, vim have several movement commands that would not be possible without normal mode because you would just be typing text rather than powerfully moving around your document (eg. (, ), [, ], e, g, f, F, t, T, b, etc). Those examples are in addition to hjkl which are equivalent to arrow keys but of course more powerful because you can add number before them.
> Switching between the two becomes harder when you always have to Escape
No it's not, escape is just what you hit to finish a command. It's no different than hitting return at the end of a paragraph. It becomes reflexive and is far less of a burden over time than the extra key stroke of holding Shift, Ctrl, Alt, or Command keys which is taken for granted by non-vim users as the only way for keyboard commands to exist.
> compared to having direct access to an arrow key.
You can have direct access to arrow keys in vim if you want, but people recommend against it because newbies tend to use them as a crutch to avoid learning better movements. I'm not a purist, and I keep arrows in insert mode, but I map them more powerful things like switching tabs in normal mode.
> Why type an extra character (i for insert) to let you insert? Why not just type to insert?
Because in this one sentence I am typing there are 20 extremely powerful commands that I'm giving up in order to have the convenience of not typing `i` before I write the sentence.
Additionally, what if I want to insert text on a new line (o, O), or if I want to replace some text that is already there (c, C, cw, cW, c, 5cc, ca", ci[, etc)? `i` is not just an extra requirement, it's a choice about what kind of edit I want to make. Furthermore, when I'm done, if I want to insert the same text again I just hit `.`. Gaining fluency in this type of workflow leads to super optimized workflows, like manually find and replacing the word foo with bar:
/fooc2fobarn.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n.n
Of course find and replace is a special case, but the fact that you can do something manually with atomic key commands that merits a custom UI in other editors ought to give you pause. The pure text editing workflows that are possible in vim just with fluency in the basic commands are unparalleled.IDEs can do a better job by building advanced tools for specific languages. Modern editors can do a better job integrating into the OS. Emacs does a better job at customizability. But nothing matches vim's raw editing capability on arbitrary text.
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am the only person in my office that uses Emacs. Everyone knows vim. Everyone loves vim. You think you're the crazy one?
Jokes aside, outside of certain areas which are fairly unusual, most programmers have never used vim OR emacs and I would guess that most don't even really know about them. It can be hard to imagine in the echo-chamber that is the online tech scene, but really most developers just use IDE's and get on with life.
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#147Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that is so, why do people change text editors? (I agree with you, I just wonder this myself)
I'm only speaking for myself with the below. ymmv of course I get the "grass is greener" feeling sometimes, so I go looking to see if anything better has come along. Then there's just the practical switch. My main job is in .net right now, while my home computers are all linux distros. It's made me search through a lot of editors to find something that runs well and feels good with windows. I also just like to explor…
Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#149Re: Why I can’t stop using Vim
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only advantage I know for using emacs in terminal is that you can get used to it when you'll have to ssh into a remote server. Anyway today we can just sshfs and use even a random ide for everything so... we can do as we like.
In my experience, any sort of filesystem remoting a la sshfs simply doesn't perform well enough to do real editing work in. One of the really nice things about vi is that it was originally designed for low-bandwidth situations, so using it over ssh is quite snappy even on a marginal network. If I had to use sshfs from home to edit files on my production servers I would probably have to kill myself.