I've been a KDE user since KDE1 and I think, despite its flaws, it's still better than Gnome. I personally like the deep configurability, love the keybindings, WM tweakability, and so on. I'm not a huge fan of Plasma but think they made the right decision by building an architecture that would allow them to use the same components to build tablet, desktop, and other interfaces. I don't use any of the widgets though - don't find them useful. And I dislike Nepomuk and Akonadi, at least in their current form. I want to love Kontact but at least in SUSE 12.3 it still falls short of the mark. But I think this desktop is headed in the right direction and it's always the default I install first!
Where KDE is Going – Part 1
51–60 of 72 posts
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#52KDE is great, but I don't like the default icons, colors and spacings, and the other themes aren't better (or at least, I couldn't find one).
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#53I have huge respect for everyone involved in KDE and OpenSource software and I'm writing this on KDE 4.13 but damn... it still sucks. Maybe I'm the wrong user.. but I do programming and do sysadmin stuff most of the time.. First the good parts: KDE is quite stable for me. I have hardly any crashes... this is huge as Unity had some ugly bugs I could not resolve. But I had to install the Numix theme and icons and tweak…
This is so, so true. And it is so sad, given that KDE 3 was a very usable, somewhat well-structured (considering the many configuration options) desktop that ran reasonably well on hardware from the previous century. It didn't try so hard to be pretty. Actually, I always thought KDE 2/3 did have a pragmatic, technical elegance. KDE 4 (sorry: KDE-SC-Plasma-something 4) just looks like an early alpha preview uniting al…
> it is a solution in frantic search of a problem
I have a feeling this is a big part of why open source projects aren't more widely used.
A part of them being open source is that a great deal of the people working on them are doing it as a hobby - because they find it interesting or fun. For a programmer, digging into a pet project (in my experience) is more of a learning experience or tinkering than a real attempt to make a usable product. There have been plenty of times myself or my colleagues have made a cool little toy without much practical use.
Honestly, I'm not intimately familiar with Gnome or KDE or Unity anymore but I have a feeling this hobbyist habit of writing code for fun leads the project astray where a commercial project (like Windows or Mac) wouldn't.
Windows for example, will have large design teams, QA teams, UX teams and managers. All of them will have a good idea of what they have to do and they're being paid to solve the problems of their customers rather than voluntarily working for fun.
Gnome and Unity on the other hand, made huge changes with (judging by the response of users) very little interaction with or consideration for their users. Sure they came up with some novel concepts but I can't sit my grandmother in front of a PC running Unity or Gnome anymore and expect her to be able to operate it. This was most definitely feasible with Gnome 2.
The opposite is true of Windows or Mac. Even Windows 8, with its pretty massive changes would be operable by someone who's used a computer in the last decade or so.
I still believe open source DEs can be successful but I think there needs to be a bigger focus on the perspective of the users and less of a focus on making a cool thing.
The 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' saying could also be applied to a lot of the things these projects have been doing.
/semirant
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#54I love and use KDE on both my workstation and laptop. However over the decades, and especially since v4, I've seen it grow into something I barely recognise. Some things have to change:
1/ Remove akonadi/nepomuk/mysql - a full mysql install just to provide a data store for "PIM and metadata" is ludicrous.
2/ Make sure the Semantic desktop/Semantic Search/nepomuk is optional. I respect that it maybe useful for some, but please respect that it may not be useful for all.
3/ Ditto for consolekit/policykit
4/ Ditto for KDE PIM. The moment Kopete, Konversation, Kaddressbook etc depended upon the PIM stuff, was the moment I dropped them for Pidgin. Why? See point #1
For many users, removing all the above isn't an option. For users its complex and time consuming. Failing to make them optional (rather than default) KDE will suffer -- losing users, as memory consumed by an idle desktop triggers horrific flashbacks to darker Windows days.
My perception as a user is that Gnome (minimalism uber alles) and KDE (everything and the kitchen sink) have gone to extremes and forgotten their user base.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#55I have huge respect for everyone involved in KDE and OpenSource software and I'm writing this on KDE 4.13 but damn... it still sucks. Maybe I'm the wrong user.. but I do programming and do sysadmin stuff most of the time.. First the good parts: KDE is quite stable for me. I have hardly any crashes... this is huge as Unity had some ugly bugs I could not resolve. But I had to install the Numix theme and icons and tweak…
> With Numix the machine feels and looks great but I'm not so happy after installing Windows 8.1 on an 10 year old Pentium M notebook with 2GB RAM and having to realize that Windows is way faster and responsive and more feature-rich than KDE and Unity and requires less RAM. I'm not trolling - I'm talking about stuff like browsing files using the file manager and using a browser or office for writing documents. Despit…
I have like ten years of experience in mixed setups. I have supported Windows since 3.1.May I try to shed some light into this?
Windows (from Microsoft, no OEM) could be really good, snappy and usable.
On the other hand what many users see is a locked down enterprise installation at work and a bloatware-ridden laptop from hp, dell or one of the other mainstream brands at home.
Furthermore a Windows installation (the OEM one ordinary people have to go through) can easily take 2+ hours. And then you have to pay up for and install office.
Compare this to any linux after Ubuntu (they weren't too bad before either) where installation takes 30 minutes and includes a decent office package.
Oh, -and multiple desktops, a sane system-wide package manager with upgrades.
Windows (as delivered by Microsoft) is neither slow nor bloated. As experienced by many end users it very much is.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> With Numix the machine feels and looks great but I'm not so happy after installing Windows 8.1 on an 10 year old Pentium M notebook with 2GB RAM and having to realize that Windows is way faster and responsive and more feature-rich than KDE and Unity and requires less RAM. I'm not trolling - I'm talking about stuff like browsing files using the file manager and using a browser or office for writing documents. Despit…
I have like ten years of experience in mixed setups. I have supported Windows since 3.1.May I try to shed some light into this? Windows (from Microsoft, no OEM) could be really good, snappy and usable. On the other hand what many users see is a locked down enterprise installation at work and a bloatware-ridden laptop from hp, dell or one of the other mainstream brands at home. Furthermore a Windows installation (the…
A, also true.
I always custom install from a Windows disc, and throw away the "monstrocity" that comes pre-installed in the OEM machine.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#57I have huge respect for everyone involved in KDE and OpenSource software and I'm writing this on KDE 4.13 but damn... it still sucks. Maybe I'm the wrong user.. but I do programming and do sysadmin stuff most of the time.. First the good parts: KDE is quite stable for me. I have hardly any crashes... this is huge as Unity had some ugly bugs I could not resolve. But I had to install the Numix theme and icons and tweak…
Getting consistent KDE/GTK2/GTK3 theming feels nigh on impossible under Linux.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#58I have huge respect for everyone involved in KDE and OpenSource software and I'm writing this on KDE 4.13 but damn... it still sucks. Maybe I'm the wrong user.. but I do programming and do sysadmin stuff most of the time.. First the good parts: KDE is quite stable for me. I have hardly any crashes... this is huge as Unity had some ugly bugs I could not resolve. But I had to install the Numix theme and icons and tweak…
This is so, so true. And it is so sad, given that KDE 3 was a very usable, somewhat well-structured (considering the many configuration options) desktop that ran reasonably well on hardware from the previous century. It didn't try so hard to be pretty. Actually, I always thought KDE 2/3 did have a pragmatic, technical elegance. KDE 4 (sorry: KDE-SC-Plasma-something 4) just looks like an early alpha preview uniting al…
I still miss KDE 3. I've been so satisfied with the latest generation of desktop environments on Linux that I've moved to Openbox trying to get back basic usability and speed.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is so, so true. And it is so sad, given that KDE 3 was a very usable, somewhat well-structured (considering the many configuration options) desktop that ran reasonably well on hardware from the previous century. It didn't try so hard to be pretty. Actually, I always thought KDE 2/3 did have a pragmatic, technical elegance. KDE 4 (sorry: KDE-SC-Plasma-something 4) just looks like an early alpha preview uniting al…
early alpha preview uniting all the bad ideas of Windows Vista. This is exactly how I describe KDE 4. It was in development just as Vista was being demoed and it shows. The entire design of the system appears to have been heavily influenced by a failed MS product and the project is still living with that legacy. Time to go back to the KDE 3 code and start working on KDE 5...
I guess it looks so bad because it is a mediocre interpretation of the UI fads of seven years ago. This is why it is always a good idea not to follow the latest fad, especially if you have constrained development resources. Unfortunately, KDE 5 seems to be headed into a similar direction, copying the latest "flat design" fad, in a rather uninspired fashion. Until KDE 5 is ready, this fad will already have passed.
Re: Where KDE is Going – Part 1
#60I have huge respect for everyone involved in KDE and OpenSource software and I'm writing this on KDE 4.13 but damn... it still sucks. Maybe I'm the wrong user.. but I do programming and do sysadmin stuff most of the time.. First the good parts: KDE is quite stable for me. I have hardly any crashes... this is huge as Unity had some ugly bugs I could not resolve. But I had to install the Numix theme and icons and tweak…
> Dolphin/Kwin/Konsole/Kate/Okular are really great tools, through and I enjoy using them more than the Gnome tools.. +1. This is why KDE has been my favourite desktop for 10 years. I don't do fancy stuff on my computer. I code. KDE gets the basic, essential tools right. Dolphin is better than Mac's Finder, Windows Explorer and Gnome's equivalent. And so is Konsole. I hope KDE keeps going strong.
I like that KDE avoided the trend to dumb down the tools. E.g., Dolphin has an integrated terminal (F4). Which is extremely handy. I don't think that this is something the Gnome folks would ever add to their file manager. That's why I prefer KDE.
I think KDE's biggest problem is that it lacks developers and other resources. And the few resources they have are regularly wasted on rewriting code, adapting KDE for failed tablet projects, and well moving KMail (once the best mail client) to a system (Akonadi) that uses MySQL and some RDF database. Which is like the most useless combination.
Why would anyone think that using MySQL to locally store metadata for emails would be a good idea? It constantly eats your battery. And I highly doubt that any individual person receives enough mails per minute to require MySQL to handle the metadata. Which Akonadi couldn't even do anyway because the RDF database just absolutely kills scalability. I've tried to delete a few hundred mails and the RDF database went berserk. So why even bother with MySQL then? They've now replaced the RDF database with a simpler replacement they've wrote. So maybe it scales a bit better now. And maybe in a few years they'll figure out that the whole MySQL thing was a stupid idea and replace that with a simpler backend.
(Oh, and it doesn't seem to properly support IMAP IDLE, at least I can't tell KMail which folders to watch...)