Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#1

Post by jrbedard » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 4:29 PM UTC

Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy
techcrunch.com

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#2

Post by fnid » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:02 PM UTC

This is a very biased article. The author neglects to mention that a very large portion of income generated by foreign born workers is sent home by those workers. The money doesn't stay in America to benefit the American economy.

It also doesn't benefit the case to call those opposed to more immigration Xenophobes. They aren't xenophobes, they are rationally aware of the situation.

Also, what he says is not true according to the research: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=794685 and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=794677

Furthermore, H1-B's are not "highly skilled." The majority of H1B workers take entry level jobs. There is an O-1 visa for highly skilled workers and there is no cap on this visa. If this debate was really about bringing in more highly skilled workers, then why argue for uncapping the lower skilled visa? Wouldn't corporations just bring in more O-1 visas, for which there is an unlimited supply available?

The reality is that O-1 visas cost more than H1B visas to employ. This debate is really about concentrating more power in the corporations and erradicating the middle class in America.

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#3

Post by rdtsc » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:04 PM UTC

> Hundreds of thousands of mostly very smart and highly educated workers who could be starting companies are not.

Alright, but millions of Americans could be starting companies as well, but are not.

In fact, America is _not_ as an entrepreneurial country with lots of little small business owners as we'd like to think. That is the propaganda bullshit we get fed on every election cycle "we got help America's small business. We gotta help Joe The Plumber...blah...blah."

In fact America businesses are mostly large behemoths employing tens of thousands of minions.

There was just a recent report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research ( http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/int-comp-... ) that compared employment in small businesses among the developed nations. US is consistently at the bottom when it comes to self-employment or employment in business with less then 20 people. The biggest reason -- the high cost of health insurance.

So I don't buy the bullshit about "if immigrants could only start their companies, then our economy would boom..." Unless, of course, the author is implying that immigrants are going to run sweatshops where employees don't get health insurance...

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#4

Post by vaksel » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:11 PM UTC

yeah that's what we need, more H1Bs...after all its not like we have a lot of unemployed. The job growth rate has dropped significantly, why should we increase our population when we don't have the jobs to support them?

these were posted on TC:

   1950’s
   Population Growth = 11,516,000
   Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%)
   
   1960’s
   Population Growth = 19,449,000
   Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%)
   
   1970’s
   Population Growth = 30,811,000 (Depression in Mexico)
   Employment Growth = 21,224,000 (68.88%)
   
   1980’s
   Population Growth = 20,865,000
   Employment Growth = 17,685,000 (84.76%)
   
   1990’s
   Population Growth = 21,667,000
   Employment Growth = 16,998,000 (78.45%)
   
   2000’s (Mar. 2009)
   Population Growth = 26,254,000
   Employment Growth = 5,137,000 (19.57%)

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#5

Post by jyothi » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:12 PM UTC

Reminds me of PGs "Founders Visa" article - http://www.paulgraham.com/foundervisa.html

It is a win-win for America and hundreds of entrepreneurs in other countries where the startup ecosystem doesn't exist and ofcourse many would want to build businesses for developed economies than attempt to run something in their home economy which probably can't pay enough. They might go back and build something few yrs down the line or invest in their home countries nevertheless America would have benefited in the mean time.

And this is not even converting all H1-Bs at least the capable ones to start their own firms.

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#6

Post by icey » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:16 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #4

yeah that's what we need, more H1Bs...after all its not like we have a lot of unemployed. The job growth rate has dropped significantly, why should we increase our population when we don't have the jobs to support them? these were posted on TC: 1950’s Population Growth = 11,516,000 Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%) 1960’s Population Growth = 19,449,000 Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%) 1970’s Population Gr…

What percentage of those figures actually relates to the technology industry?

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#7

Post by ojbyrne » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:19 PM UTC

Totally off-topic, but this is the first thing I saw after getting my new shiny US visa. Couldn't help but share.

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#8

Post by mrkurt » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:19 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #4

yeah that's what we need, more H1Bs...after all its not like we have a lot of unemployed. The job growth rate has dropped significantly, why should we increase our population when we don't have the jobs to support them? these were posted on TC: 1950’s Population Growth = 11,516,000 Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%) 1960’s Population Growth = 19,449,000 Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%) 1970’s Population Gr…

The article advocates "freeing" existing H1Bs, not expanding the H1B program (though that might be good too).

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#9

Post by rantfoil » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:21 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #4

yeah that's what we need, more H1Bs...after all its not like we have a lot of unemployed. The job growth rate has dropped significantly, why should we increase our population when we don't have the jobs to support them? these were posted on TC: 1950’s Population Growth = 11,516,000 Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%) 1960’s Population Growth = 19,449,000 Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%) 1970’s Population Gr…

There's two issues here -- one is that there's a brain drain in the United States. The best and the brightest are leaving. They can't stay, because we won't let them. The fix is letting them, by reforming H1B policies.

Second is H1B abuse by large corporations. This is a legit problem -- some IT firms bring in people they shouldn't (sometimes thousands at a time), and this takes up H1B's from talented people who should get them. Again, the fix requires the government to figure out who is abusing it, and changing the policies to prevent them from doing so.

Re: Free the H-1Bs, Free the Economy

#10

Post by rantfoil » Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 5:24 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #3

> Hundreds of thousands of mostly very smart and highly educated workers who could be starting companies are not. Alright, but millions of Americans could be starting companies as well, but are not. In fact, America is _not_ as an entrepreneurial country with lots of little small business owners as we'd like to think. That is the propaganda bullshit we get fed on every election cycle "we got help America's small busi…

Even within YC, our own Summer 08 batch, there are several startups by non-Americans that have been very successful at building useful products, raising money, and altogether creating value for the US economy.

But those same startups have to jump through a million hoops just for the right to exist in our borders. So this effect is real. I don't claim to know to what extent our economy could be affected positively or negatively, but it is real.