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I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

blog.alyxandria.org

121–130 of 145 posts

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#121
post #96
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly as valid. Generally, people have to have a job in order to survive.

I worked to teach myself how to program. Started at the age of 9, pursued it off and on until I was 21 then went hard at it. I dropped out of community college because I had to work – so you're correct, working is something you must do to make money sometimes. But I had other options available to me. The easiest path I could have taken was to continue working construction for my father or paint houses with my cousin.…

I dropped out of college to accept a job in my desired field of software development. It continues to make sense in hindsight, especially with NPR running frequent stories about the high cost of financing education, market value, etc. My work experience IS my resume. YMMV.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#122
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to scholarships, which are merit based, many schools also have good financial aid, which is need based. I think colleges advertise this poorly but it makes a huge difference. I am at Boston University now and while the sticker price is $55k/year the average american student pays about half of that. When my wife went to Princeton they used the FASA form to to calculate how much your family could afford and…

When you say that "the average american student pays about half of that", are you counting student loans towards the half the student pays or the half they don't? I've seen loans treated both of these ways before. I went to Harvard, and like your wife at Princeton, I found the financial aid incredibly generous. Their net price calculator online is a pretty good guide to their policies: https://college.harvard.edu/fin…

collegedata.com (what ever that is) says that the total cost to attend BU is $61k, and the average need based gift was $26k plus another $7k in "self help" for freshmen which I assume is a combination of loans and work for the school. 83% of freshmen got aid, but less than half of students over all got financial aid. Some of this is skewed by the fact that BU has a large number of foreign students who typically do not get any financial aid.

$30k per year is still a lot, but its a private university in the middle of Boston. Half of that $30k is for room and board.

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl...

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...graduating from college is the first thing you can do where it's reasonably hard, takes a multi-year effort, and is completely optional...a signal that someone has decided to pursue something through to the end..." I see this point-of-view a lot, and it is certainly the conventional wisdom. But, for a moment, let's abandon this belief and explore other perspectives. What if college isn't a demonstration of tenaci…

I don't think 'conventional wisdom' means what you think it means, but setting that aside, what are you trying to say? That people go to college for different reasons? I certainly think that would be generally agreed to.

Isn't it pretty straight forward as to what it means? I wasn't attacking you; why do you seem defensive?

I'm saying:

1. Just because someone finishes a degree program doesn't mean that they have tenacity or natural ability. (The conventional wisdom, which you invoked, is that they do.)

2. If the goal is to filter people for tenacity or natural ability, there are probably better ways to do that.

3. Hiring people who view education as a game (i.e. I scored better than you!) may be a good strategy for corporations but not necessarily for entrepreneurship, science, or society, in general.

Also, I'm not trying to 'win' at internet discussion - just bring up different perspectives, which I think are interesting. And, perhaps other people have other interesting perspectives.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#124
Or… you could just emigrate to (one of the better-functioning parts of) Europe. Public universities with no or low fees, some of them excellent to world-class, no worries about SWAT raids, greater privacy protections, healthier food, etc. etc. I used to admire the US when I was young(er). Mostly, I came to realize, because I have deeply liberal values (liberal, that is, in the original European sense!). These days, I ask myself why anyone would even stay in that pathetic joke system, especially if young, flexible, and intelligent. You can't get anything done for your own people, starting with education and health; all you do is work them harder to extract more taxes to pay for your warlords to terrorize and snoop on the rest of the world.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#125
post #124

Or… you could just emigrate to (one of the better-functioning parts of) Europe. Public universities with no or low fees, some of them excellent to world-class, no worries about SWAT raids, greater privacy protections, healthier food, etc. etc. I used to admire the US when I was young(er). Mostly, I came to realize, because I have deeply liberal values (liberal, that is, in the original European sense!). These days, I…

Aren't non-EU students supposed to pay full price for their university education?

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#126
post #124

Or… you could just emigrate to (one of the better-functioning parts of) Europe. Public universities with no or low fees, some of them excellent to world-class, no worries about SWAT raids, greater privacy protections, healthier food, etc. etc. I used to admire the US when I was young(er). Mostly, I came to realize, because I have deeply liberal values (liberal, that is, in the original European sense!). These days, I…

Aren't non-EU students supposed to pay full price for their university education?

Sure, in the UK. I don't even count them in Europe anymore. ;-) Try Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, France,…

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#127
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my understanding that a "good" college football team generates considerable sums of money for a univerity. You're probably thinking about the cost of starting a football program or maintaining an unsuccessful football team.

A great college football team makes money, but does require a substantial capital investment. Typically the only private institutions you will find in the AP Top 25 are Stanford and Notre Dame. The bulk of schools outside the Top 25 lose money on their football teams. Before we weep over that however, they lose money on all of their sports teams, their student newspapers and student theater productions and a flagship…

> do consider a quality football program through the auspices of the university a benefit they are willing to pay for.

Then it wouldn't be an operational loss, if the attracted number of students paying for the school with a football team offsets the costs of running the team after any direct proceeds.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#128
post #124

Or… you could just emigrate to (one of the better-functioning parts of) Europe. Public universities with no or low fees, some of them excellent to world-class, no worries about SWAT raids, greater privacy protections, healthier food, etc. etc. I used to admire the US when I was young(er). Mostly, I came to realize, because I have deeply liberal values (liberal, that is, in the original European sense!). These days, I…

Aren't non-EU students supposed to pay full price for their university education?

Not in France for example.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'conventional wisdom' means what you think it means, but setting that aside, what are you trying to say? That people go to college for different reasons? I certainly think that would be generally agreed to.

Isn't it pretty straight forward as to what it means? I wasn't attacking you; why do you seem defensive? I'm saying: 1. Just because someone finishes a degree program doesn't mean that they have tenacity or natural ability. (The conventional wisdom, which you invoked, is that they do.) 2. If the goal is to filter people for tenacity or natural ability, there are probably better ways to do that. 3. Hiring people who v…

I'm not feeling attacked, your response was confusing.

You used the term "conventional wisdom" when perhaps you meant "What I think other people believe, or I have read other people to believe." That was confusing because I don't agree with the statement you made in #1. Folks I knew at college, and since then, all shared a common experience when their natural ability completely failed them in college. They 'hit the wall' as it were. That was part of the maturation process.

My comment was that college was the perhaps the first time someone gets to choose to take on a multi-year task that is nominally difficult. That isn't a subjective statement, it is a descriptive one. I say perhaps because it isn't the only possibility but it was the relevant one because the original article is about college and more specifically college degrees.

Your second statement asserts a filtration process. Again, not mentioned by me, but implied in the original article because the plan to make up a degree (presumably to qualify). Except that it isn't a filtration process its a selection process. Lots of people work in this industry and others without any degree or other certification. They experience selection bias when they are in a selection pool of individuals that have degrees but that selection bias is a primarily content based. The same person would have no selection bias in a pool of individuals with degrees outside the area of the job.

Successfully completed coursework in a topic, not necessarily a degree, carries with it an indication of interest. I've got 12 college hours of CNC machining coursework on my transcript, that comes from being interested in manufacturing. Interested enough to voluntarily invest some of my time to learn more about it. It is a social signal of sorts that it stronger than just a conversational opening of "Yeah I'm interested in CNC manufacturing machines."

I also disagree with your #3 but I understand what your are saying. Anyone who came through college and didn't get an appreciation for what it tried to teach them (which is my interpretation of the statement 'treating it like a game') would in fact be a signal not to hire them. It would represent to me, a lack of maturation in their ability to evaluate the use of their time. In my experience, that lack of maturity expresses as poor judgement in the workplace.

Re: I Can’t Afford a Bachelor’s Degree, So I’m Making My Own

#130
post #96
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly as valid. Generally, people have to have a job in order to survive.

I worked to teach myself how to program. Started at the age of 9, pursued it off and on until I was 21 then went hard at it. I dropped out of community college because I had to work – so you're correct, working is something you must do to make money sometimes. But I had other options available to me. The easiest path I could have taken was to continue working construction for my father or paint houses with my cousin.…

What if you had continued to paint houses with your cousin for 3 years? Would you feel that getting and holding that job is also an equivalent to receiving a bachelor's degree?
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