A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son • Hacker News Board

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#71

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:43 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #55

iagooar wrote: post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

"I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives." This is truly awful, but the vast majority of Americans will never be subject to a SWAT raid or anything like it (especially if they're not involved in illegal activity). Or terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings. Or etc etc. People are notoriously bad at estimating the probability rare but extreme events will happen to them. Of course, that do…

I would even say "vast majority" is an understatement.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#72

Post by tomp » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:44 PM UTC

cgh wrote: post #41

iagooar wrote: post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

The US is a big place (note: I'm not American either). Keep in mind that your comment is similar to a non-European reading about far-right violence and recent EU parliament election success and thinking, "When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy I am not living in Europe. It sounds so crazy to a [Canadian|Australian|etc.] person."

What far right violence? Is there anything happening on a significant scale? What do you mean by "recent EU parliament election success"?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#73

Post by simplemath » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:44 PM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #62

cgh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a big place (note: I'm not American either). Keep in mind that your comment is similar to a non-European reading about far-right violence and recent EU parliament election success and thinking, "When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy I am not living in Europe. It sounds so crazy to a [Canadian|Australian|etc.] person."

Should we factor in the largest prison population per capita in the world and transfer of surplus military gear to police to nullify the 'big place' factor?

Yes. The "we're big, these events are outliers" meme is patently false.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#74

Post by tlrobinson » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:44 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #68

tlrobinson wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives." This is truly awful, but the vast majority of Americans will never be subject to a SWAT raid or anything like it (especially if they're not involved in illegal activity). Or terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings. Or etc etc. People are notoriously bad at estimating the probability rare but extreme events will happen to them. Of course, that do…

[deleted]

That's how probabilities work.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#75

Post by fit2rule » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:44 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #22

Good grief. SWAT teams in the US are utterly out of control. It's one thing to have resources for the relatively rare armed robbery/hostage/mass shooter situation, to respond to an outbreak of violence; it's quite another to be using them for drug raids and other contexts where they initiate or are the sole cause of violence. This goes hand in hand with the confrontation-obsessed gun culture we have, in which a subse…

>SWAT teams in the US are utterly out of control.

America is dominated by cults of violence, cults of death. Its military-industrial groups do nothing but produce death and destruction at the press of a button, and yet Americans do nothing about it.

This problem won't go away until the real issue is address: the utter lack of humility in your average public, and dire amounts of arrogance in the ruling elite. It is pure and utter know-best that makes this irreversible. Until people accept the humility for change, it doesn't happen...

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#76

Post by frandroid » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

peterkelly wrote: post #20

I'm struggling to understand how any of the officers on the SWAT team - or, for that matter, those who formulated the policies to use tools like M-16s and flash grenades in drug raids - could possibly consider their actions to be less serious than someone taking or dealing in drugs.

The drug war is a race war. It has little to do with drugs. They're not going after white coke/pot users/dealers very much, are they?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#77

Post by templeos2 » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

God is perfectly just. Either you deserved it or they will be punished. I told the CIA that God was perfectly just. Wise-ass nigger Obama runs a news story on a black 3-year old killed in a ghetto. God did a story of a young black kid about 6, getting a fat angelic-looking white cop to tie his shoe. Search for "cop tying shoe" on google. The CIA has condescendinly pigeonholed me as a criminal hating law enforcement. No, I'm with God. You are evil, as you well know and news that the world is perfectly just will not sit well with you.

You think you are law and power and can condescendingly dismiss me in your mind as a criminal. No, I'm with God. Fear yourself and your sins, nigger.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwebjunk....

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#78

Post by dllthomas » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #42

astrodust wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not normally a fan of litigation, but in this case they should sue the police department into the ground. If this behaviour was way too expensive to sustain because of liabilities, they'd have to curtail it. Complaints are something they just ignore. Settlements hurt . If this was some national security incident where the nephew was about to activate a nuclear weapon this sort of force might be justified. That it…

I agree, but settlements don't hurt enough - ultimately they come out of the taxpayer's pocket,a nd unless a mayor or police chief is held personally responsible, all that happens is a game of bureaucratic musical chairs. This also needs civil suits against the officers, and jail terms. At least the Georgia Bureau of Investigation is treating it as a criminal incident, so it's possible that one or more of these polic…

We don't need draconian measures; we need substantive and reliably enforced measures. People respond much more strongly to certainty of punishment than severity.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#79

Post by fixermark » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #50

malandrew wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this enough to be able to challenge the constitutionality out of SWAT team usage and no-knock warrants, based on the principle that we are innocent until proven guilty. For example, in this case, the police were looking for one individual and found a family inside. Shouldn't the police treat them all as innocent instead of enemy combatants until they've positively identified the suspect? If we have to err between…

A judge would have signed off on this raid and was probably reasonably aware of the tactics they were likely to employ.

This is an interesting point, and depending on the jurisdiction, some judges are elected officials.

It should come back on the judge that he or she authorized this abuse of power. Unfortunately, the feedback loop between the (hypothetical) judicial backstop on the system and the enforcers of the law tends to be left open by ignorance.

It would be good for local political activists in Atlanta to make sure that the judge who authorized this warrant has a significantly curtailed career.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#80

Post by simplemath » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #55

iagooar wrote: post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

"I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives." This is truly awful, but the vast majority of Americans will never be subject to a SWAT raid or anything like it (especially if they're not involved in illegal activity). Or terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings. Or etc etc. People are notoriously bad at estimating the probability rare but extreme events will happen to them. Of course, that do…

Then why throw up your pitiful strawman in the first place?