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A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

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Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders--if the evidence is so easily destroyed, how great could the crime actually be? It's not like they're feeding a body into a wood-chipper or anything.

It would be a non-violent crime, probably. Non-violent crimes shouldn't result in swat teams.

Non-violent crimes turn into violent standoffs when the police routinely respond to them with aggressive raids. This is completely a product of escalation between the illegal gangs and the 'legal' gang.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#62
post #41
post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

The US is a big place (note: I'm not American either). Keep in mind that your comment is similar to a non-European reading about far-right violence and recent EU parliament election success and thinking, "When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy I am not living in Europe. It sounds so crazy to a [Canadian|Australian|etc.] person."

Should we factor in the largest prison population per capita in the world and transfer of surplus military gear to police to nullify the 'big place' factor?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#63

I'm struggling to understand how any of the officers on the SWAT team - or, for that matter, those who formulated the policies to use tools like M-16s and flash grenades in drug raids - could possibly consider their actions to be less serious than someone taking or dealing in drugs.

Maybe there needs to be more publicity about drug gangs and the slaves created by the drug cartels. They exist, and they are heinous.

But so too are these kinds of reactions from the police. Its really as if the public are caught in the middle of two horrific forces, being created on both ends of the playing field. The question is: who profits? The cold hard answer, which nobody wants to admit is this: the dealers of drugs, and the dealers of weapons. Oftentimes, the same damn groups.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#64

Atlanta continues to amaze me. On one hand, I see reports every week from the police department at my school (downtown atlanta)about robberies/ mugging (armed) with usually no police officers around to help. The response times are usually >20 minutes (usually because they are way understaffed). And on the other, I see militarized police brutality. I wish there is a way to funnel my tax dollars to those departments th…

>those departments that are going to help people rather than hurt them

When you find a police department that fits this definition, please let us all know. I'm skeptical it's even a possibility.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#65
post #27

This was the result of a no-knock warrant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant , which allows police to enter a home without prior warning, on the theory that giving notice will allow people inside to destroy evidence. They are almost uniquely a product of the drug war. One can imagine very few situations outside of drugs were evidence could be so easily destroyed as to justify a no-knock warrant.

It's a really stupid theory. Destroying evidence is just another charge to throw on and doesn't really suggest any risk of violence. Though sure, if they flush in time maybe the police lose out. But it hardly seems worth it. It ought to be possible to serve warrant without instigating a violent encounter. And it's not like the risk of destruction of evidence is anything new. You could easily destroy evidence well before the US was even founded. Might have been even easier, historically. Burn it, throw it in a river, etc. No-knock aggression should be reserved for situations where there's a very very strong expectation of violent resistance and that's it.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#66

Good grief. SWAT teams in the US are utterly out of control. It's one thing to have resources for the relatively rare armed robbery/hostage/mass shooter situation, to respond to an outbreak of violence; it's quite another to be using them for drug raids and other contexts where they initiate or are the sole cause of violence. This goes hand in hand with the confrontation-obsessed gun culture we have, in which a subse…

As I mentioned elsewhere, I like the map but it is worth noting the default view displays 30 years worth of incidents.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#67
post #5

That's incredible. What's the incidence of things like this in the rest of the world?

Depends which part. Happens all day every day in Palestine.

Any /reputable/ sources for that ? Or are you just trying to bait people ? How is your comment relevant to the situation in the US ?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#68
post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

"I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives." This is truly awful, but the vast majority of Americans will never be subject to a SWAT raid or anything like it (especially if they're not involved in illegal activity). Or terrorist attacks. Or mass shootings. Or etc etc. People are notoriously bad at estimating the probability rare but extreme events will happen to them. Of course, that do…

[deleted]

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#69

Good grief. SWAT teams in the US are utterly out of control. It's one thing to have resources for the relatively rare armed robbery/hostage/mass shooter situation, to respond to an outbreak of violence; it's quite another to be using them for drug raids and other contexts where they initiate or are the sole cause of violence. This goes hand in hand with the confrontation-obsessed gun culture we have, in which a subse…

>the security apparatus at every level of jurisdiction are utterly out of control

ftfy

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being serious? In Mexico the narco terrorists pulled innocent people off of a bus and made them pit fight to the death for their amusement. http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Mexican-crook... In the middle ages they would impale you on a spike so that you died slowly over days. In Rwanda one tribe butchered 5 million people of another tribe with machetes. An that's just examples I can think of off…

You do realize you're comparing the present day United States law enforcement with Rwandean tribes, Mexican narco-terrorists and the middle ages?

Are you blind?

Until recently America had child labor and would lynch black people. A FEDERAL judge in my hometown of New Orleans is famous for saying "We like to try our niggers before we hang them".

Human nature is human nature.

We live in a 'veneer' of civilization.

Underneath are still the same old animal instincts honed over millions of years of evolution.

Don't ever forget that. Or forget it at your peril.

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