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Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

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Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#191

Post by Vespasian »

ghshephard wrote: post #20

Even worse is the new trend in technology companies to eliminate "Set Vacation". It used to be the case that you felt "obliged" somehow to take your 10 days of vacation a year, because you saw it piling up. Even better, if you were laid off, you could get the vacation in cash, and that helped when you were cut off without a job. But now, a lot of technology companies are saying, "No Set Vacation - you need to negotia…

And here is one the major reasons (besides visas, health care etc.) why I would never and for (almost) no amount of money work in the USA.

I'm certain the productivity and quality of live of many if not most people will decline over time without sufficient time to relax and focus on non work related things. Especially in high-tech/creative/innovative field I never understood how this is not understood by some people /companies.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#192

Post by VLM »

490371703 wrote: post #108

Can someone explain to me why paid vacation is ok? If you don't work, in other words contribute to your job, why in the hell should you be paid? By the way that doesn't mean I don't believe in the workers' welfare, but just not in this way.

My sister in law is a public school teacher and has the contractual option of 9 larger monthly paychecks or 12 smaller monthly paychecks.

I would certainly consider a job with no vacation if it paid 52/49-ths more than a real job with vacation.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#193

Post by EvanKelly »

patio11 wrote: post #78
ghshephard wrote: post #20

Even worse is the new trend in technology companies to eliminate "Set Vacation". It used to be the case that you felt "obliged" somehow to take your 10 days of vacation a year, because you saw it piling up. Even better, if you were laid off, you could get the vacation in cash, and that helped when you were cut off without a job. But now, a lot of technology companies are saying, "No Set Vacation - you need to negotia…

This is sometimes called -- in one of the most Orwellian coinages in the industry -- "unlimited vacation days."

I was very wary of the "unlimited vacation policy" at my new company and asked about it during interviews. Most interviewers agreed that it could cause people to not feel free to take vacation, but that the company really meant it and there wouldn't be negative consequences if you took vacation.

Fast forward to 6 months into the job and I've taken days off for long wedding weekends and have some more extended travel planned in the future.

I agree that "unlimited vacation days" can be a red flag, but it really just means to be more curious and thoughtful about the culture during the interview process and find out what it really means.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#194

Post by medell »

tekalon wrote: post #68

While the lack of safety net and fear of being fired are all valid reasons for Americans not taking vacation, what about another reason- they don't know how to vacation. From personal experience, I get twitchy just from being sick/away from work for more than a day. I only take one day at a time of vacation (usually on Friday's to stretch out the weekend, and usually to get extra studying done or run some errands) on…

I know what you mean! In my old office people would bank hours and rather get paid out then take their full vacation. Most of my friends in Europe tell me how their managers practically force them to take time off! (especially in the summer).

It seems like it has become so ingrained in the culture that not taking vacation, working long hours and being "busy" has become a badge of honor. But with more and more articles like these I see a shift coming as the new generation seeks more balance and lifestyle.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#195

Post by adventured »

brightsize wrote: post #156
rbehrends wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with GDP per capita comparisons is that GDP is a bit of a weak measure of economic performance. It is a measure of raw, unadjusted economic throughput (cash flow, essentially), not necessarily a measure of economic performance. It is increased by an inefficient healthcare system (healthcare spending makes up 17.7% of the US GDP all on its own, while most of the affluent European countries are in the 9%-11…

In the past two years, I've spent six months living in Germany. The quality-of-life difference between that country and the US is striking. In Germany, it appeared that ordinary people could both afford to, and were inclined to, partake often in small pleasures such as having a Bier and a bite at outdoor cafes in the summer. The streets were lined with these cafes and restaurants, most doing a brisk business. I never…

What part of the US are you comparing to?

We must be living in very different countries, because the things you describe, I know very few people who can't afford simple things like cut flowers whenever they want them, or to go eat out at a cafe.

Average / middle class people I knew while living in LA did these things constantly.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#196

Post by ritchiea »

hueving wrote: post #164
nickthemagicman wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, you can look at a poor kid born to a poor family who works his ass off every day. Then look at a wealthy kid born to a wealty family who works his ass off every day. Even if they make the same on all of their standardized tests, make the same grades, and go to the same college, and get the same degree..... Who's going to be more successful with the same amount of hard work? And sure there's outliers but it'…

>Even if they make the same on all of their standardized tests, make the same grades, and go to the same college, and get the same degree..... >Who's going to be more successful with the same amount of hard work? Success is tied more to education than anything. Good education just also happens to be tied to wealth as well. So by framing it with them getting the same education, you have actually eliminated most of the…

You're underestimating the power of connections. I would never say that hard work won't make you successful in the US, but coming from a wealthy family creates a lot of opportunities earlier on in life that poor kids will have to work hard to see. Coming from a wealthy, or even upper middle class, family means maybe your summer senior year of high school is spent interning with your uncle's firm instead of working for extra spending money. It means you can ask your parents for career advice (poor parents don't have career advice because they don't have careers). It means you have an idea, from growing up with it, what success in a career path in a developed country looks like. All of these things are tremendously valuable.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#197

Post by tekalon »

medell wrote: post #194
tekalon wrote: post #68

While the lack of safety net and fear of being fired are all valid reasons for Americans not taking vacation, what about another reason- they don't know how to vacation. From personal experience, I get twitchy just from being sick/away from work for more than a day. I only take one day at a time of vacation (usually on Friday's to stretch out the weekend, and usually to get extra studying done or run some errands) on…

I know what you mean! In my old office people would bank hours and rather get paid out then take their full vacation. Most of my friends in Europe tell me how their managers practically force them to take time off! (especially in the summer). It seems like it has become so ingrained in the culture that not taking vacation, working long hours and being "busy" has become a badge of honor. But with more and more article…

I'm 50/50 on the 'badge of honor'. For some it's true. For me, I don't know what to do on vacation. People get bored/anxious when they have nothing to do. Even going on a trip can be hard (planning, financing, dealing with changes, having to rest after the trip).

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#198

Post by nickthemagicman »

rayiner wrote: post #187
resu_nimda wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you edited "Self Entitled" into the generational title, just to really drive home the disgust. ;) I partially disagree, though. I do think Americans are exceptional, even if I haven't settled on exactly how, and I definitely don't think of it as a wholly positive trait. But this juxtaposition from your post is interesting: Americans aren't exceptional in any way. Americans love to believe that the individu…

I think Americans are exceptional, which doesn't need to mean "the best at everything." 1) Americans are, historically, exceptionally willing to let immigrants integrate. My family is from Bangladesh, my wife's from Oregon, both going back many generations. She could never integrate into Bengali society the way I have been allowed to integrate into American society. She could live there her whole life, and she'd alwa…

You're right. It's really easy to focus on the negative aspects of America. There's a lot good here.

I just hate the worship of the vague abstract ideals that make us feel good over the complexity and hard truths of reality.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#199

Post by refurb »

yequalsx wrote: post #173
refurb wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example of the cost of medication is an odd one. Most (all?) states in the US have mandatory generic substitution. That means the pharmacy must fill your Rx with the generic unless the doctor wrote "Dispense as Written" on the Rx. Now, if the generic was not available in the US that is a different story. Patents don't all end at the same time, so the drug may already be off patent in the UK, but not in the US. F…

Hospitals are not required to treat people regardless of ability to pay. Hospitals are merely required to stabilize a patient before dumping them. The U.S. spends around 16% GDP on healthcare. This is by far the most of any industrialized nations. Americans have among the worst health care outcomes of the industrialized nations. Americans spend far more for procedures than citizens of other countries. Medicaid only k…

You've made several erroneous claims, so I'll comment on a few of them:

Hospitals are not required to treat, but most do. It is general knowledge in the industry that if you can't afford treatment for your cancer you go to a local hospital where you will be treated regardless of ability to pay.

Yes the US spends more than any other industrialized nation, but no, health outcomes are not the worst. If you use blunt tools like life expectancy to measure outcomes, the US ranks far behind, but that is only because of other extraneous factors that have nothing to do with quality of care. Check out cancer patient outcomes for colorectal cancer sometime, the US outcomes easily outstrip those of other countries.

Medicaid is not only for the extremely poor. The ACA just bumped up Medicaid income eligibility to 133% of poverty level. That's over $30K for a family, so I wouldn't say that's "extremely poor".

I have no idea where the "Medicare kicks in for the old because it is unprofitable" comes from. It was a social benefit put into place in the 1950's. The insurance industry has nothing to do with it.

No you can't lose your home over medical bills. Your primary residence is protected when you go bankrupt. Also, even in nations with single payer systems patients end up financial difficulties when sick because they can't work.

I suggest you do some more research and educate yourself on these issues rather than repeating what others tell you.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#200

Post by Dewie »

tokenadult wrote: post #81

Alas, this is about the level of analysis I've come to expect from years of reading The New Republic on issues like this. Neither cultural nor legal conditions surrounding employment in the United States are ideal for workers who have the preferences of the author of this article,[1] but neither are they so horrific that the economy is "hurt" in a big way, especially compared to the economies of other countries. Othe…

> Other comments posted before mine have already pointed out that overall prosperity in the United States is quite high,

I've seen more that people have pointed out that America is prosperous, not necessarily that America is overall prosperous. The US seems to have one of the highest gini coefficients out of the OECD countries.

> For me, the crucial fact to keep in mind in any of these decry-America threads on Hacker News is that people vote with their feet.

Which can't be easily decoupled from how well America has managed to market itself in the last 60 or so years, and marketing does not necessarily reflect reality. While the US hasn't been universally loved in all that time - see for example US foreign policy - it seems to have been able to market itself as a great place to live, also for people from developed countries. How long has there been a noticeable trend of "decry America" w.r.t. living standard on the Web?

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