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Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

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Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#161

Post by bmj »

vonmoltke wrote: post #71
bmj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I suggest you try taking your vacation and see what happens. In all likelihood it wil…

> I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I believe there is an ego component to this. Not only does it "look good" to upper…

Yeah, agreed. And my friends who admit to thinking this way, also admit to the ego component (and that it is, perhaps, a problem).

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#162

Post by resu_nimda »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #148
resu_nimda wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you edited "Self Entitled" into the generational title, just to really drive home the disgust. ;) I partially disagree, though. I do think Americans are exceptional, even if I haven't settled on exactly how, and I definitely don't think of it as a wholly positive trait. But this juxtaposition from your post is interesting: Americans aren't exceptional in any way. Americans love to believe that the individu…

Honestly, you can look at a poor kid born to a poor family who works his ass off every day. Then look at a wealthy kid born to a wealty family who works his ass off every day. Even if they make the same on all of their standardized tests, make the same grades, and go to the same college, and get the same degree..... Who's going to be more successful with the same amount of hard work? And sure there's outliers but it'…

..this bizarre American sense of individual exceptional-ism is really naive.

That's what I'm getting at, maybe it's exactly that belief that sets us apart, and positing a distinctly American root seems to support the exceptionalist case.

It's like you're almost saying it's naive for the poor kid to believe he can be successful. If that belief is distinctly an American thing then I'm all in on exceptionalism.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#163

Post by nate »

What I find interesting about mentioning the Cadillac ad and workaholism, is how Ford actually found workaholism decreased the efficiency of his workers:

> On January 5, 1914, the Ford Motor Company took the radical step of doubling pay to $5 a day and cut shifts from nine hours to eight, moves that were not popular with rival companies, although seeing the increase in Ford's productivity, and a significant increase in profit margin (from $30 million to $60 million in two years), most soon followed suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#164

Post by hueving »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #148
resu_nimda wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you edited "Self Entitled" into the generational title, just to really drive home the disgust. ;) I partially disagree, though. I do think Americans are exceptional, even if I haven't settled on exactly how, and I definitely don't think of it as a wholly positive trait. But this juxtaposition from your post is interesting: Americans aren't exceptional in any way. Americans love to believe that the individu…

Honestly, you can look at a poor kid born to a poor family who works his ass off every day. Then look at a wealthy kid born to a wealty family who works his ass off every day. Even if they make the same on all of their standardized tests, make the same grades, and go to the same college, and get the same degree..... Who's going to be more successful with the same amount of hard work? And sure there's outliers but it'…

>Even if they make the same on all of their standardized tests, make the same grades, and go to the same college, and get the same degree.....

>Who's going to be more successful with the same amount of hard work?

Success is tied more to education than anything. Good education just also happens to be tied to wealth as well. So by framing it with them getting the same education, you have actually eliminated most of the advantage the wealthy kid had. Unless you are just defining success as 'being rich', in which case the wealthy kid doesn't even have to be educated.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#165

Post by anon4 »

jasonkester wrote: post #83

That Cadillac ad is awesome. I'd never seen it before. It watches like a parody, but at the end you're hit by the reality that yes, this guy is being completely serious. The message really is "sure, I traded away my quality of life, but look at all this stuff! " That's actually the notion that Cadillac is trying to sell. Amazing that they're doing such a good job of it. Fortunately, there's no real trick to getting b…

So I just watched it.

> Work hard all your life and when you're cynical, white-haired, old, fat and balding, you'll have a gaudy apartment and the ponciest car to ever ponce out of the poncing factory. And a barf-grey suit, a colour I didn't know existed until now.

Also, you guys would totally be going to the moon every weekend if any of all those money you're making year-round went to NASA and education.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#166

Post by nsxwolf »

01Michael10 wrote: post #153
nsxwolf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice what I said here: "If you're afraid of taking vacation only because of what you've heard from the media" If you're afraid of taking vacation because of first hand knowledge about the culture of your company wrt vacations, by all means, be afraid of taking time off.

My point is people are not taking their vacation because of something they read in the media so I think your question and concern were unnecessary.

Oh, okay. Sorry for posting then.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#167

Post by jtreminio »

ilyanep wrote: post #127
ghshephard wrote: post #20

Even worse is the new trend in technology companies to eliminate "Set Vacation". It used to be the case that you felt "obliged" somehow to take your 10 days of vacation a year, because you saw it piling up. Even better, if you were laid off, you could get the vacation in cash, and that helped when you were cut off without a job. But now, a lot of technology companies are saying, "No Set Vacation - you need to negotia…

I dislike seeing this sentiment all over HN just because it isn't as absolutely true as everyone wants to believe. I work for a company with unlimited vacation, and in my first 10 months working there will have taken ~3-3.5 weeks of vacation days cumulatively that I probably wouldn't have if I had to conserve a limited set of days. Nobody has given me crap over it, nor have I felt pressured to not take those days. It…

15 days vacation isn't unheard of in the tech world.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#168

Post by VLM »

bradleysmith wrote: post #136
ghshephard wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, of course, makes it great for the private employers (the 1%), but not so great for the private employees (the 99% that was mentioned in the article)

over half of the 6mil firms in the US with payrolls in this country have between 1 and 9 employees. ('08 numbers[0]). "employer" != 1% "policies good for employers" != "policies only good for 1%" [0]- https://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html

A lot of them are "employee in name only" contractors. Doesn't mean much. I've done it myself. There are tax implications when you get 1099'd, as long as you go in eyes open it'll be OK. Don't forget to file your quarterly estimated payments, the IRS isn't amused if you skip one.

There's a lot of talk on HN about the natural evolved tribal size of human orgs being only XYZ people so when we inevitably have a larger than XYZ group its epic fail. Well... it goes the other way too, and its quite possible that natural evolved civilization etc requires more than 2 guys on a "tribe" long term. It doesn't have to be the end of the world or apocalyptic, merely suggesting encouraging microfirms might not be a wise policy decision.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#169

Post by nsxwolf »

anentropic wrote: post #111
Someone1234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no safety net. That's a wonderfully succinct way of describing the US. It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you (higher, longer, easier to get unemployment pay for one example), whereas there really is no lower limit on how low the US will let you fall (e.g. healthcare is a privilege not a right in the US). They do say that the US has some of the highest anti-depre…

this is also why the USA is a lot more religious than other developed countries

What? Because they don't have insurance?

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#170

Post by hueving »

ghshephard wrote: post #20

Even worse is the new trend in technology companies to eliminate "Set Vacation". It used to be the case that you felt "obliged" somehow to take your 10 days of vacation a year, because you saw it piling up. Even better, if you were laid off, you could get the vacation in cash, and that helped when you were cut off without a job. But now, a lot of technology companies are saying, "No Set Vacation - you need to negotia…

I'm starting to believe this complaint just stems from people that don't actually want to take vacation and are just upset because they don't get an extra fistful of cash.

I work for a startup with unlimited vacation and know several others that do as well. Anyone who wants to take a vacation can take it at almost any time and for weeks at a time - no questions asked. The only time I've ever seen any conflict is when there was a major release planned at the same time as the beginning of one vacation, in which case the employee just pushed it back a few days.

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