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Inside the Mirrortocracy

carlos.bueno.org

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Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#181

Post by wavefunction »

facepalm wrote: post #81
wavefunction wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the point of the poster you're replying to. You examine the merits of someone's argument, not the fact they're one of the paypal founders. That is specifically the cult of personality referred to. Some people on this site seem to be desperate to fulfill the rituals they think will lead to success. Most of success is pure luck, combined with some preparation and ability to deliver.

"That is specifically the cult of personality referred to." But you are merely doing the same thing, except that you revere the author of the article more than the PayPal founder. Why should the article writer be more right than the PayPal founder?

I don't know anything about dkarapetyan other than I agree with them that too many look to a cult of personality to give them the rituals to achieve the same sort of success.

Whereas "paypal founder" is an intended signal, that if you do what they suggest, you will have similar success as "paypal founder."

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#183

Post by digita88 »

CmonDev wrote: post #31

"It's hard to find good people to hire" Oh, come on! Where is this myth coming from? I don't know about USA, but here in London there is an over-abundance of IT workforce (what else would justify the sub £60k senior dev job offers).

I can attest to the lower than usual salary and high cost of living in LDN

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#184

Post by gaius »

austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

This guy is very much not a good ad for either YC or "Tuck" (which I assume is a famous business skool in the US).

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#185

Post by x0x0 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #126
x0x0 wrote: post #2

Carlos sounds like a wanker who spends too much time reading trust fund assholes on gawker bitch (and lie! Hi Sam) about startups. Way over here in reality: I've worked for 6 startups, some you've heard of, and some you haven't. At the smallest I was employee 6; at the largest ~60. Now, I'm not claiming I've never seen unprofessional behavior, but 1 - the interview process has been pretty obvious. Yes, I've grabbed d…

Ah, the good old "this hasn't happened to me so it doesn't happen" argument.

Do note that I mentioned 6 companies in which I have personal knowledge, while this article only mentions 42 floors (ie I presented 500% more actual examples than the author). Even if you where to believe all 7 companies the author has worked at -- counting the mugs on the about page -- are such bad startups, we still have nearly equal datasets. And that's not counting other startups I know about because friends are founders.

So yes, this hasn't happened to me, and I presented much more or, at bare minimum, the same actual data points.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#186

Post by CmonDev »

gaius wrote: post #179
seestheday wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I hear about salaries in London it makes me mad. Why is the pay so bad? How is it possible that the value isn't recognized? Are you able to demonstrate the value that you bring, or is it so much an old boys club that dev's are thought of as factory workers? On a related note - why aren't there more senior software dev's building their own businesses? It seems like you have so little to lose.

Yes, the old class system. Engineers, no matter how qualified, better even than managers, are "blue collar" workers still. Better to have the right tie, played the right sports, and your father to use his network to give you a leg up. Even if you only have a a Third from Loughborough or Aberyswyth or Durham or some other joke university. Only the City pays fair market wages to technical people, because contrary to po…

City pays only a fraction of what the analysts/traders/etc. get.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#187

Post by gaius »

facepalm wrote: post #22
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that great programmer necessary reads a lot of what amounts to soft "programming/founder lifestyle" blogs. Especially since those two seem to be behind the peek of their fame. I do not remember their names appearing in major tech sites nor on any smaller topic/framework focused ones last years. Plus, you would discriminate against tech oriented programmers that focus more on technological side of the t…

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

I too used to be into Joel. Then I realized two things. Firstly, I didn't know a single person who used any Fog Creek products. And secondly that it simply was not credible that top-notch programmers would choose to work on something as dull as a glorified time sheet system. Nowadays, I would consider evangelising Joel to be a red flag for inexperience.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#188

Post by gaius »

CmonDev wrote: post #186
gaius wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the old class system. Engineers, no matter how qualified, better even than managers, are "blue collar" workers still. Better to have the right tie, played the right sports, and your father to use his network to give you a leg up. Even if you only have a a Third from Loughborough or Aberyswyth or Durham or some other joke university. Only the City pays fair market wages to technical people, because contrary to po…

City pays only a fraction of what the analysts/traders/etc. get.

But it pays programmers the global rate. I don't care that others earn more, only that I and my peers are treated fairly.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#189

Post by facepalm »

tptacek wrote: post #177
facepalm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says they are oblivious? Maybe they just don't like to hire people who don't drink. Why should they be obliged to hire them?

It's a little alarming how quick the thread here backed away from this point, to reassure you that nobody is really saying that anyone is obligated to disregard drinking habits. No. People should definitely be reinforcing this (very real) ethical obligation. Don't select candidates based on their willingness to go to a bar during the interview process.

But why? I am not claiming it is a good idea. It wouldn't appeal to me at all. But why shouldn't people be free to hire in that way? What if the boss is somebody whose main lifestyle is hanging out in bars. Or the company wants to disrupt the nightlife business.

I think people commenting and downvoting me have too much prejudice. You have a certain image of a company in mind, and judge by that. What about people who quit their jobs to run a company the way they like. Maybe they quit their job so that they can run their company from a bar. Lot's of companies are being run from Starbucks (or so I hear), is that despicable too?

Legal things aside. I don't know about bars. It seems legal to meet candidates in a cafe, or over lunch?

Or what if you go out partying and you meet somebody who you want to hire by chance? Even if you don't do it deliberately - if the hiring manager just likes to party and goes out every night, he would automatically be "discriminating" against people who don't go out, because they would have a lower chance of meeting him and being hired.

Edit: would you say then that any looking for "cultural fit" is unethical?

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#190

Post by ido »

tptacek wrote: post #178
CmonDev wrote: post #31

"It's hard to find good people to hire" Oh, come on! Where is this myth coming from? I don't know about USA, but here in London there is an over-abundance of IT workforce (what else would justify the sub £60k senior dev job offers).

Perhaps not in the valley, but ~$105k is not ballpark absurd for senior dev in the US. (I'm in London at the moment and I do acknowledge that this place is fucking fabulously expensive).

I live in Germany and spent almost 8 years in Austria before that & that (60k gbp = 75k eur) would be considered a very good salary for a senior dev here.
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