Works With Nest • Hacker News Board

Re: Works With Nest

#11

Post by npinguy » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:14 AM UTC

yitchelle wrote: post #8

I am a little bit unenthusiastic about Nest integration into the Mercedes Benz where it tells Nest to warm up the house prior to arrival. What a waste of energy! Is it so difficult for physical human body to endure some discomfort while the house warms up? Imagine thousands of household doing something similar. OK, there could be a use-case where the elderly is due to arrive home and needs the house to be at the righ…

Firstly, the premise of that scenario, is the house is cold while the person is gone. That means SAVING on energy costs by not heating the house unnecessarily while no one is inside, which is the current de facto standard. (Do you turn off the heat when you go to work? I certainly don't)

Secondly, it's silly to object to innovation that allows humanity to be frivolous or wasteful according to their desires. Where do you draw the line? Why have central heating in the first place? Is it that difficult to wear a sweater indoors? If people want to be warm, they will utilize technology to be warm. And if that technology progresses to allow this process to be simple, efficient, and automated, people will use it. And not just those in the luxury market.

Re: Works With Nest

#12

Post by clockwerx » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:17 AM UTC

Meh. Already possible with systems like TheThingSystem or Ninjablocks - there are rough edges, but there's a convergence of protocols and platforms taking place in the open source space.

I predict that these sort of things may be slicker initially, but open platforms focusing on one problem (ie: nodered or Huginn for rules, Owntracks for presence, TheThingSystem or Ninjablocks for pushing a bunch of readings to an MQTT hub from multiple protocols) will win out.

Right now I can drive both airconditioners through either a simple on/off 433mhz plug, or for the samsung, via wireless/direct commands. I can trigger rules to disable when I leave the house. I can control my lights when motion is sensed.

It's going to take a long time; but the open rules solutions already are approaching competitiveness with IFFFT or Zapier; and the NodeJS based lower level stuff is all focused on MQTT; so interoperability is highly likely.

Re: Works With Nest

#13

Post by vnorby » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:17 AM UTC

yitchelle wrote: post #8

I am a little bit unenthusiastic about Nest integration into the Mercedes Benz where it tells Nest to warm up the house prior to arrival. What a waste of energy! Is it so difficult for physical human body to endure some discomfort while the house warms up? Imagine thousands of household doing something similar. OK, there could be a use-case where the elderly is due to arrive home and needs the house to be at the righ…

Wasting/saving energy is not as simple a calculation as that. When energy is at peak use (say in the winter, around 5:30/6:00 when everybody returns from work), it becomes more expensive for energy companies to procure the requisite energy needed. During these peak times, they often have to buy energy from other companies at a higher cost or find less efficient means of generating it (e.g. coal) to meet the demand. Getting an accurate picture of estimated energy demand can actually save a lot of money/energy for customers.

I work at Nest and it may be a little unclear at the moment (we're working on it), but The Nest API does not guarantee that if you send an ETA of 15 minutes (docs: https://developer.nest.com/documentation/eta-guide), the home will heat to the appropriate level in 15 minutes. It's actually filtered through our algorithms to determine the best course of action to not waste energy but also provide the appropriate level of comfort.

Re: Works With Nest

#14

Post by Niten » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:21 AM UTC

aisenik wrote: post #7

"Interesting" that they're avoiding supporting HomeKit. But given that the majority of Nest owners own iOS devices, it sure feels like a slap in the face. Supporting HomeKit would allow Siri integration, but I suppose Google probably wants voice control to themselves.

It was Apple that chose to make HomeKit a nonstandard, proprietary protocol for the purpose of locking people into iOS. You simply cannot fault Google for failing to fall in line with Apple's play for the market.

Re: Works With Nest

#15

Post by XorNot » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:30 AM UTC

yitchelle wrote: post #8

I am a little bit unenthusiastic about Nest integration into the Mercedes Benz where it tells Nest to warm up the house prior to arrival. What a waste of energy! Is it so difficult for physical human body to endure some discomfort while the house warms up? Imagine thousands of household doing something similar. OK, there could be a use-case where the elderly is due to arrive home and needs the house to be at the righ…

People tend to waste energy when they're cold - it's the false savings of turning off the air-conditioner.

You think you can bear it - until you absolutely can't, and immediately turn it to the highest setting you can because damn it you want it warm now.

Then it's warm (or too hot) and you turn it off to cool down faster and...rinse repeat.

For most people it's far more efficient to turn the air conditioner on to a given temperature setting, so when they enter a room they don't have any immediate reaction to "make it warmer or colder". We are exceptionally bad at judging these things in the moment.

Re: Works With Nest

#16

Post by hoboon » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:31 AM UTC

I'm at least a little excited to see this. I've been reading about home automation for decades in the likes of Popular Science, and now, to perhaps see it really happen, finally. It makes me feel old, feel young.

Re: Works With Nest

#17

Post by gravity13 » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:35 AM UTC

alexandros wrote: post #2

In other words, Google wants to turn Nest into a platform for the house, some kind of Android equivalent. Looking forward to seeing their next steps. If I'm right, some kind of appstore I would imagine. So far they've focused on big brands, if this fails it would be because of insufficient trust from developers, but Android shows people can look the other way if there's enough of an incentive.

|| some kind of appstore I would imagine.

Extrapolation != predicting the future. You can't just download an android app to fluff your pillows before you get home, it's about integrating the house with new devices.

|| if this fails

This won't fail.

Re: Works With Nest

#18

Post by AVTizzle » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:36 AM UTC

Looking at the Nest lineup, I was reminded of that adage: "Google is getting better at design faster than Apple is getting better at web services."

Those products look damn good.

Re: Works With Nest

#19

Post by tomkarlo » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:39 AM UTC

yitchelle wrote: post #8

I am a little bit unenthusiastic about Nest integration into the Mercedes Benz where it tells Nest to warm up the house prior to arrival. What a waste of energy! Is it so difficult for physical human body to endure some discomfort while the house warms up? Imagine thousands of household doing something similar. OK, there could be a use-case where the elderly is due to arrive home and needs the house to be at the righ…

Millions of thousands of homes today simply leave their thermostat at the same temperature all the time, failing to optimize for the large portions of the day when nobody is home because it's simpler (and they probably don't have a timed thermostat, or they can't figure out how to set it up.)

Imagine thousands of households doing something smarter.

Re: Works With Nest

#20

Post by sosborn » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:40 AM UTC

gravity13 wrote: post #17

alexandros wrote: post #2

In other words, Google wants to turn Nest into a platform for the house, some kind of Android equivalent. Looking forward to seeing their next steps. If I'm right, some kind of appstore I would imagine. So far they've focused on big brands, if this fails it would be because of insufficient trust from developers, but Android shows people can look the other way if there's enough of an incentive.

|| some kind of appstore I would imagine. Extrapolation != predicting the future. You can't just download an android app to fluff your pillows before you get home, it's about integrating the house with new devices. || if this fails This won't fail.

> This won't fail.

Why not?