Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

hacks.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 154 posts

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#21

Post by leeoniya »

thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

i've had this thought for quite some time about a lot of the standards/features being implemented into the core. many of these cool things can/should be done as addons. it may make sense to bake them in for Firefox OS, but not for the standalone browser.

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#22

Post by ben0x539 »

thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

I vaguely agree with you but I think comparisons with media players and text editors sell short how central web browsers are to computer use these days.

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#23

Post by nfoz »

applecore wrote: post #18
thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

The democratization of the web gives people who have been consumers the ability to be creators. The tools of creation belong in everyone's hands.

Yes but they don't all need to be exactly a single tool, a single process! Just like I really don't want a web browser in my file manager / operating system / text editor.... wait all of that already happened. sigh.

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#24

Post by kibwen » 

  > We’re working on a protocol adapter that will allow 
  > clients using the Firefox Remote Debugging Protocol – 
  > including the Developer Tools and WebIDE – talk to all 
  > mobile browsers, regardless of rendering engine or 
  > runtime. Our first targets are Chrome for Android and 
  > Safari on iOS.
My company expects all of our internal web applications to function on the executives' iPads, but they refuse to purchase Macs on which to debug issues that manifest only on mobile Safari. And since the mobile Safari developer console was disabled in iOS 6, I haven't come up with anything better than alert-based debugging techniques (Firebug Lite was broken the last time that I tried, though admittedly that was a while ago). If Mozilla truly reverse-engineers Apple's remote debugging protocol it would be a godsend for us.

(And if I'm just an idiot who's overlooking some simple way of debugging mobile Safari, please let me know.)

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#25

Post by gress »

thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

I strongly disagree. Just because economics have temporarily separated the means of creation from the means of consumption in some domains, there is no reason that they should not be recombined now that it can be done freely.

Why shouldn't all systems be programmable?

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#26

Post by logn »

thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

Every browser already ships "developer tools" for inspecting and debugging webpages. And you can already use those tools to rewrite the pages. I see this as the next step of that. And audio or word processing tools are less related to the web than this IDE. I agree that I don't see the harm in making this an Add-on instead. Anyhow browsers are the new operating systems, and Firefox has a development IDE bundled.

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#27

Post by gress »

Deutscher wrote: post #3

I've always wondered why developer tools are bundled with browsers. Shouldn't they be available as separate downloads as: 1. Most people use browsers compared to working with them for development, and 2. The additional tools just add to the package size and possibly increased resource usage (if they are running with the rest of the browser)? Thanks in advance for the replies.

It's true that most people use browsers as opposed to working with them for development.

The question is, do you want this state of affairs to be built into the design of our systems, or do you think that it would be good if, over time, a greater proportion of people are able to express themselves through code?

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#28

Post by 27182818284 »

kibwen wrote: post #24

> We’re working on a protocol adapter that will allow > clients using the Firefox Remote Debugging Protocol – > including the Developer Tools and WebIDE – talk to all > mobile browsers, regardless of rendering engine or > runtime. Our first targets are Chrome for Android and > Safari on iOS. My company expects all of our internal web applications to function on the executives' iPads, but they refuse to purchase Macs…

The sad answer is that your co' is what is incorrect. If you have "executives" plural you have the budget in your organization to buy a dev mac and a dev device.

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#29

Post by phkahler »

thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

"Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? "

No, and that's a problem. Do you see programming languages shipped with every computer? No, but that's how it used to be. Most shipped with BASIC while Unix shipped with C. I guess Macs come with Python, but just CLI no IDE - not even idle. Is there some reason not to ship development tools? Do you not want the curious to have ready access to dig in and understand the stuff they use every day?

Re: WebIDE lands in Firefox Nightly

#30

Post by fidotron »

phkahler wrote: post #29
thegeomaster wrote: post #15

This should be a separate tool. An add-on, or whatever, but it shouldn't be bundled with the browser. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? No, because you wanted to play your Black Sabbath .mp3, or read a .pdf scientific paper. If you wanted to re…

"Do you see audio mixing/mastering or video editing software being bundled with media players? Or do you see word processors/TeX IDEs bundled with PDF viewers? " No, and that's a problem. Do you see programming languages shipped with every computer? No, but that's how it used to be. Most shipped with BASIC while Unix shipped with C. I guess Macs come with Python, but just CLI no IDE - not even idle. Is there some rea…

They won't though. All you see in web dev tools is the UI as all the actual clever stuff is still hidden away from you on servers.
Post reply on HN