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Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

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Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#41

Post by philmcc »

icebraining wrote: post #9
therealidiot wrote: post #7

I wish I was able to just 'lock myself away' and finish a task... I just can't seem to go 5 minutes without someone disturbing me with some weird issue, or something that they could simply have searched online and had an answer instantly headphones just don't seem to be a strong enough do-not-disturb indicator

Agreed, as a go-to guy in the office, I often feel the same way. One thing I've noticed is that even if people don't actually interrupt me, the expectation that they might at any minute prevents me from fully concentrating on the task. Having some sign to indicate that for the next, say, 30m I should not be interrupted, and having people respect that, would probably help significantly. On the other hand, the fact tha…

I recently had a variation of this experience with my phone. I was forced to be without it for 48 hours, and after a day there was a distinct mental distinction when I felt a sort of lightness that I can only associate with not only -not checking my phone- but -not thinking whether or not I should check my phone-. if that makes sense...

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#42

Post by zaphar »

malanj wrote: post #12

I stopped coding for a few years, and recently started spending significant hours a week on coding again. The feeling is quite incredible. I had forgotten how good that high is. I do think that the author doesn't understand Flow fully. The ideal state of Flow is when there is a concrete challenge with immediate feedback, which coding is great at providing. The other activities he compares coding to don't have such st…

Swimming is my physical activity that induces flow for me. Our local Fitness Center has a pool with lanes half the length of an olympic pool. It's the perfect length for me to get that immediate feedback with a new challenge immediately following. It also reduces all other distractions. It's hard to hear anything else when your doing a front crawl and you really only see the line on the bottom of the pool. It's the perfect flow inducing exercise for me.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#43

Post by Snhr »

392c91e8165b wrote: post #36

In my late teens and my twenties, I spent 10s of 1000s of hours in a state of intense absorption on programming tasks. (I am in my 50s now.) Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours -- and perhaps as little as 15 hours -- a week in the state? Just because an activity feels really good does not mean it is good for you. I guess I should explain a little how I came to believe that…

I didnt realize how much I typed so I put it in pastebin. I've never commented here and your comment gave me hope that someone understands me (I'm sure there are a lot of people who do, its likely a miscommunication on my end) This is also an example of my writing when I'm not focused.. really tired right now but this is important so im half there so hopefully its half readable enough to give me maybe a half answer even though I want the full one I will accept any piece of information that makes me a little more closer to being successful in life)

tldr You made me realize stuff from your post and how do you live without flow and also this is more or less for me trying to figure what the hell my problem is and why I'm not good at a lot of aspects that make a successful person, also you don't have to read it because its probably an unrelated issue that sounds like mine but its worth mentioning just in case it is and I rarely find anyone that I can relate to with this sort of stuff so forgive me.. just trying to learn more about myself.

http://pastebin.com/eBNFJaSH

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#44

Post by sanityinc »

philers wrote: post #22
malanj wrote: post #12

I stopped coding for a few years, and recently started spending significant hours a week on coding again. The feeling is quite incredible. I had forgotten how good that high is. I do think that the author doesn't understand Flow fully. The ideal state of Flow is when there is a concrete challenge with immediate feedback, which coding is great at providing. The other activities he compares coding to don't have such st…

I think that off-piste skiing shares the same immersive flow-like experience whilst also being a physical activity. It's the combination of feedback, decision making and then successful completion of the challenge that really combines to create the feeling. Thinking of the problem, planning your response, and then executing in quick succession repeatedly.

Yes. Climbing, too. And there seem to be a surprising number of climbers who are also programmers, so it seems to me there's something similar in the nature of the two activities.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#45

Post by icebraining »

modarts wrote: post #15
wicker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was having trouble with the headphones not being a clear enough signal so I took a 3'x4' black foam posterboard and made a cubicle door. It caused a stir but mostly just in the people who liked to come by and ask me if I'd opened the cat gif they'd just emailed. Having the door closed is a nice clear signal and so far it's worked fine, for exactly your reasons. I can now trust that I won't be interrupted and I can…

It seems like the problems expressed by you and the parent comments really come down to the unsuitability of open plan offices for development work that seem to have become popular in many startup environments. Giving people access to offices with doors that close would elimanate an entire class of issues (and admittedly introduce some more, but I couldn't see anything being more destructive than continuous streams o…

I don't agree, actually. Office doors wouldn't help if people just opened them whenever they wanted. The reason doors can be more effective is because they're a more common sign of that request for uninterrupted thought, but that can be accomplished on open plan offices as well, if you have a policy defining those signals. Open plan offices may be worse on a general noise level, but that's a different issue.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#46

Post by lingoberry »

392c91e8165b wrote: post #36

In my late teens and my twenties, I spent 10s of 1000s of hours in a state of intense absorption on programming tasks. (I am in my 50s now.) Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours -- and perhaps as little as 15 hours -- a week in the state? Just because an activity feels really good does not mean it is good for you. I guess I should explain a little how I came to believe that…

Interesting... I would also like to add that even if you're in a state of flow you are still more likely than not working on the wrong thing/problem or taking the wrong approach. Prolonged flow without any reflection on what you're doing will likely take you very far down a path to nowhere. I've observed this in myself many times.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#47

Post by collyw »

1___1 wrote: post #40
presidentender wrote: post #24

When I'm able to achieve flow, I'm supremely happy. You all understand. A few tasks, though, have been serious blockers. When I don't understand my tools, and they fail in undocumented ways, and the relationships between presentation and business logic aren't clear, it actually hurts my feelings. It's as if the machine itself is judging me and reminding me that I'm not good enough.

Does anyone have tips to overcome these "blockers"? Stalling after encountering blockers is more detrimental to me than plodding along without achieving flow.

For me the two are kind of related. I have been working on a side project for the last two or three months. Got going really well for a couple of weeks, and coded quite a lot. Then I got busy with other stuff in my life, so had to leave it for a while. It seems a lot more difficult to get into the state when I haven't been there for a while, while during the good two weeks, I came home from work and managed to get into the state very easily. Enthusiasm for an interesting problem also seems to help me.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#48

Post by yomritoyj »

392c91e8165b wrote: post #36

In my late teens and my twenties, I spent 10s of 1000s of hours in a state of intense absorption on programming tasks. (I am in my 50s now.) Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours -- and perhaps as little as 15 hours -- a week in the state? Just because an activity feels really good does not mean it is good for you. I guess I should explain a little how I came to believe that…

This is very much my experience too. Binge programming can give you a false satisfaction of having done intellectual work without too great an intellectual effort. I find myself itching to write up some code precisely at those times when I am feeling frustrated that I am not working on something “deep” but when the really “deep” things seem too hard and their rewards too far away in the future.

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#49

Post by collyw »

Snhr wrote: post #43
392c91e8165b wrote: post #36

In my late teens and my twenties, I spent 10s of 1000s of hours in a state of intense absorption on programming tasks. (I am in my 50s now.) Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours -- and perhaps as little as 15 hours -- a week in the state? Just because an activity feels really good does not mean it is good for you. I guess I should explain a little how I came to believe that…

I didnt realize how much I typed so I put it in pastebin. I've never commented here and your comment gave me hope that someone understands me (I'm sure there are a lot of people who do, its likely a miscommunication on my end) This is also an example of my writing when I'm not focused.. really tired right now but this is important so im half there so hopefully its half readable enough to give me maybe a half answer e…

Reading your post you sound like me at "unmotivated" times in my life. (I would say I go through cycles, but nowhere near as extreme as your description).

When I start getting to the stage you are at, I make a point of doing some outdoor sports (a few people mentioned climbing. My personal preference is whitewater kayaking, or mountain biking - something that requires full focus and involves a bit of adrenaline).

I used to do a lot of outdoor, sports (worked as a river guide for a few years, and kayaked nearly every day). Now I have an office job, and see the difference. Something that gives you a bit of adrenaline helps you achieve the same feeling, as others have described with climbing, but not associated with coding.I think this helps you bring more balance to your life. If you don't do a lot of exercise, just getting fit will make a big difference as well.

At first it might be difficult to motivate yourself, but once you get into a habit you will find it easy, and you may even get annoyed the days you don't get to do your sport.

Anyway, that's what I find helps me. (Promising myself to start riding my bike on the trails on my way home from, now the weather is getting better).

Re: Coder's High – The Intense Feeling of Absorption

#50

Post by 392c91e8165b »

392c91e8165b wrote: post #36

In my late teens and my twenties, I spent 10s of 1000s of hours in a state of intense absorption on programming tasks. (I am in my 50s now.) Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours -- and perhaps as little as 15 hours -- a week in the state? Just because an activity feels really good does not mean it is good for you. I guess I should explain a little how I came to believe that…

Replying to myself and quoting myself: "Am I the only one who believes that it is bad for me to spend more than 20 hours . . . a week in the state?"

That is misleading because it gives the impression that I spend a non-negligible fraction of my time in the flow state. I do not. I spend at most 15 to 20 hours a week programming. These years, very little of that time is spent in the flow state.

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