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Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

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Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Glassdoor, Google pays 200k average and up 300k for software engineers. The industry average hangs around 100k for pretty much any salary data on the internet. Quote from my manager after a candidate turned down our offer: "We're not Google". This is responding to the candidate's "unreasonable" salary expectations. So yes, I do believe there are companies paying significantly more.

Patently false. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm

You're just looking at base salaries-

Senior Software Engineers earn over 200k after bonus and stock: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Senior-Software-Engin...

Staff Software Engineers earn over 300k after bonus and stock: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Staff-Software-Engine...

This shows that while Google has "standard" base salaries, employees make a lot more through bonus and stock.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#132
post #117
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I tell the folks I mentor to think of themselves as professional athletes with a 15, maybe 20 year career." what terrible advice! Please stop "mentoring" "Young developers should save 50% of their after tax income." I wonder how long it's been since you were young. While saving early is likely a good idea, it's also the time that student loans, young families, buying houses etc are all huge costs that very likely ma…

I appreciate your interest in this topic and don't mind the personal criticism. I am sure some younger developers will read this, so for that reason I will respond to some of your points. > These are all great excuses for not saving. Life doesn't care about your excuses. You either find a way to do it, or you don't. Some people will have such severe extenuating circumstances that saving much or anything is impossible…

"such huge benefits due to compound interest over time that it looks like a magic trick."

Not at realistic rates of return.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#133

This is fascinating that there is actually hard evidence for this, but it's not surprising to me given my own experiences. When I first started out as an "intermediate" software developer (after a couple years as doing contract work) I was poached twice within a year of taking a position, both times the offers were at least 30% higher, an amount my existing employers where highly unlikely to match (in fact in the sec…

"As a potential employer now I'm trying to figure out how best to ensure that I'm not making the same mistakes I saw at the places I worked for."

Why don't you just ask them? I bet they have a huge list of stuff they dream about, and are dying to have you listen to them. You don't have to promise them anything, just give them a stress-free option to talk about what they want. And then listen to them. For the best responses, don't collect their opinions as a group, collect them individually.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patently false. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm

You're just looking at base salaries- Senior Software Engineers earn over 200k after bonus and stock: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Senior-Software-Engin... Staff Software Engineers earn over 300k after bonus and stock: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Staff-Software-Engine... This shows that while Google has "standard" base salaries, employees make a lot more through bonus and stock.

there are 4400 software engineers, but only 285 senior software engineers that shared their salaries. Not sure if that's the actual ratio, but I'm sure it's not too far off.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#135
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your interest in this topic and don't mind the personal criticism. I am sure some younger developers will read this, so for that reason I will respond to some of your points. > These are all great excuses for not saving. Life doesn't care about your excuses. You either find a way to do it, or you don't. Some people will have such severe extenuating circumstances that saving much or anything is impossible…

"such huge benefits due to compound interest over time that it looks like a magic trick." Not at realistic rates of return.

And after the real rate of inflation and taxes.

But that's in part because we're now in a period of financial repression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_repression

But lots of that is still true, e.g. it's vital to have a reserve.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#136
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"such huge benefits due to compound interest over time that it looks like a magic trick." Not at realistic rates of return.

And after the real rate of inflation and taxes. But that's in part because we're now in a period of financial repression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_repression But lots of that is still true, e.g. it's vital to have a reserve.

"And after the real rate of inflation and taxes."

Yes.

"it's vital to have a reserve."

Agreed!

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#137
post #39

I've known people who stay for 4 months at a new higher-paying gig and then leave. Because the paycheck and new title didn't make up for the toxic culture/culture clash that they dove into. Since you see them more than you see your real friends, the people you work with become your extended family of sorts. "If all you get from work is a paycheck, you are underpaid" -Jim Rohn Daniel Pink says it best. The best jobs g…

Of course, if you get paid half the market salary, you're also getting underpaid. This isn't a tradeoff: in my experience, the places that treat their employees well by providing a good work environment and not trying to nickel and dime them are also the places that pay well. Seek those out, and reward them and yourself by working for them.

Actually from my experience , toxic places pay more because they have problems retaining talent(or just anybody).

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#138

Switching jobs works well when developers are in their 20's. But I've found in the 30's that a number of factors combine to make it much less attractive: 1) Each jump becomes less and less. There's an invisible salary cap for software engineers. By the time a software engineer is in their 30's, they've jumped a few times and are already close to the maximum. 2) There are costs associated with switching jobs. There's…

> 4) For total compensation there seems to be two tiers of companies, the top tech (google, facebook, amazon, etc.) and everyone else. I've noticed the big difference is not the base salary (top tech only pays a few % more). The really big difference is cash bonus + stock (RSU).

This is partially true (IMHO). What the other companies provide is potentially higher upside with a lot greater risk. Younger people, or rather those with less life responsibilities, are more likely to make that trade-off. Equity in a startup might go 10x or even 100x or, hell, 0x. None of these is likely to apply for Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc.

> 5) Unfortunately, the interview skills required to get into the top tech companies is biased against older software engineers.

I disagree with this assertion. To be a software engineer is to be in a constant state of learning. Period. It's true that those with less life responsibilities will have more time and greater inclination to spend outside work time learning new things. I mean this in a general rather than specific sense. But that's not biased against older engineers. Those with more life responsibilities have simply made certain choices.

Put it this way: in many professions married people with children work full time and then go study part-time to get a Masters or some other qualification. It's demanding, sure, but it's a choice and it's certainly possible.

I think it's true that in Silicon Valley there is _some_ bias against older engineers. You see this in terms of starting salaries and signing bonuses for the better grads from Stanford, MIT, CMU, etc. These can be a significant percentage of what someone with 10 years experience working at exactly the same company is earning.

But life responsibilities or not, no one owes you a living. Those who invest time to maintain and improve their craft are, as a whole, going to do better in the long run. There's nothing ageist about that.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#139

Switching jobs works well when developers are in their 20's. But I've found in the 30's that a number of factors combine to make it much less attractive: 1) Each jump becomes less and less. There's an invisible salary cap for software engineers. By the time a software engineer is in their 30's, they've jumped a few times and are already close to the maximum. 2) There are costs associated with switching jobs. There's…

Google, Facebook, Amazon paying significantly more is a myth, even if you include all the "benefits" (most of which most of us would never use).

After you've worked for 4+ years, a typical yearly RSU refresher adds up to around $80k+/yr. Add in $150k+ base salary and bonus and it can easily hit $200-300k or higher.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#140
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big life hack is to learn to balance salary with cost of living. It isn't always about pursuing the highest possible salary, because that might mean you're paying most of it in rent. Consider a $75k salary in Texas. That's $4766/month net (or thereabout), due to lack of state income tax. Let's say you pay $1k/month in rent (very realistic for most of Texas). That leaves you with $3766. That $2750/month figure won…

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I live in a state where housing costs tend to be unusually high, with salary not that much higher than average to compensate (Maryland).

What stops you from moving to Texas (or someplace else)?
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