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Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

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Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#121

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #115
jabits wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what makes you think a 10X developer can just "become" a 10X manager. This tendency of programmers to think they are automatically qualified, let alone interested, in being a manager is baffling to me. They are two mostly unrelated disciplines and in my experience, most programmers are not cut out to be managers.

Agreed, and also I suspect (or maybe this is just a silly hope) that the best developers in a company can often make more than their manager, even if their manager is great. Now, moving up to director or VP level or higher (assuming you have the aptitude and desire), is a different story.

[deleted]

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#122

Post by fleitz »

kelnos wrote: post #115
jabits wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what makes you think a 10X developer can just "become" a 10X manager. This tendency of programmers to think they are automatically qualified, let alone interested, in being a manager is baffling to me. They are two mostly unrelated disciplines and in my experience, most programmers are not cut out to be managers.

Agreed, and also I suspect (or maybe this is just a silly hope) that the best developers in a company can often make more than their manager, even if their manager is great. Now, moving up to director or VP level or higher (assuming you have the aptitude and desire), is a different story.

Yes, the best devs will generally make more than their mgr, however, the best mgrs will make far more than the the best devs.

And as you said, the target is really a VP/Director type position, using mgmt as a stepping stone.

It's like how a Sergeant makes more than an Lt in the Army, however, the progression in the officer core quickly outstrips the best an enlisted man can hope for.

The great thing about leadership roles is they're typically very transferable, there's not many orgs that don't need good leaders.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#123

Post by meowface »

nilkn wrote: post #119
hnriot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I tell the folks I mentor to think of themselves as professional athletes with a 15, maybe 20 year career." what terrible advice! Please stop "mentoring" "Young developers should save 50% of their after tax income." I wonder how long it's been since you were young. While saving early is likely a good idea, it's also the time that student loans, young families, buying houses etc are all huge costs that very likely ma…

I actually think more people should act as if their career is going to end in 20 years. Thinking in these terms really drives home what you need to do if you want actual financial independence. Even if the goal is not realistically attainable, it shows you exactly where you stand. Let's say you think $1M is good enough for your notion of financial independence. Well, how can you accumulate that amount in 20 years? On…

Keep in mind software dev salaries often aren't as high in states outside of CA and NY, especially when working for smaller companies and companies that aren't tech-centered. Saving $2750 per month would be far too difficult for many software devs in other parts of the US.

I do agree that saving a lot early on is a good idea though.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#124

Post by minikomi »

nilkn wrote: post #119
hnriot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I tell the folks I mentor to think of themselves as professional athletes with a 15, maybe 20 year career." what terrible advice! Please stop "mentoring" "Young developers should save 50% of their after tax income." I wonder how long it's been since you were young. While saving early is likely a good idea, it's also the time that student loans, young families, buying houses etc are all huge costs that very likely ma…

I actually think more people should act as if their career is going to end in 20 years. Thinking in these terms really drives home what you need to do if you want actual financial independence. Even if the goal is not realistically attainable, it shows you exactly where you stand. Let's say you think $1M is good enough for your notion of financial independence. Well, how can you accumulate that amount in 20 years? On…

Ouch. From Tokyo... That seems impossible for me in my current track. Thanks for the dose of reality. Time to think things over.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#125

Post by nilkn »

meowface wrote: post #123
nilkn wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think more people should act as if their career is going to end in 20 years. Thinking in these terms really drives home what you need to do if you want actual financial independence. Even if the goal is not realistically attainable, it shows you exactly where you stand. Let's say you think $1M is good enough for your notion of financial independence. Well, how can you accumulate that amount in 20 years? On…

Keep in mind software dev salaries often aren't as high in states outside of CA and NY, especially when working for smaller companies and companies that aren't tech-centered. Saving $2750 per month would be far too difficult for many software devs in other parts of the US. I do agree that saving a lot early on is a good idea though.

One big life hack is to learn to balance salary with cost of living. It isn't always about pursuing the highest possible salary, because that might mean you're paying most of it in rent.

Consider a $75k salary in Texas. That's $4766/month net (or thereabout), due to lack of state income tax. Let's say you pay $1k/month in rent (very realistic for most of Texas). That leaves you with $3766. That $2750/month figure won't be too far off if you don't have any dependents and live frugally, especially if you take advantage of tax-advantaged savings (like a 401(k)).

The thing is, you can make more than $75k in Texas, especially once you've got a few years of experience under your belt. So while I completely agree that it's not going to be attainable for everybody, I think it's not so far off as many might think.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#126

Post by lightblade »

imaginenore wrote: post #120
cpprototypes wrote: post #75

Switching jobs works well when developers are in their 20's. But I've found in the 30's that a number of factors combine to make it much less attractive: 1) Each jump becomes less and less. There's an invisible salary cap for software engineers. By the time a software engineer is in their 30's, they've jumped a few times and are already close to the maximum. 2) There are costs associated with switching jobs. There's…

Google, Facebook, Amazon paying significantly more is a myth, even if you include all the "benefits" (most of which most of us would never use).

According to Glassdoor, Google pays 200k average and up 300k for software engineers. The industry average hangs around 100k for pretty much any salary data on the internet.

Quote from my manager after a candidate turned down our offer: "We're not Google". This is responding to the candidate's "unreasonable" salary expectations.

So yes, I do believe there are companies paying significantly more.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#127

Post by meowface »

nilkn wrote: post #125
meowface wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind software dev salaries often aren't as high in states outside of CA and NY, especially when working for smaller companies and companies that aren't tech-centered. Saving $2750 per month would be far too difficult for many software devs in other parts of the US. I do agree that saving a lot early on is a good idea though.

One big life hack is to learn to balance salary with cost of living. It isn't always about pursuing the highest possible salary, because that might mean you're paying most of it in rent. Consider a $75k salary in Texas. That's $4766/month net (or thereabout), due to lack of state income tax. Let's say you pay $1k/month in rent (very realistic for most of Texas). That leaves you with $3766. That $2750/month figure won…

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I live in a state where housing costs tend to be unusually high, with salary not that much higher than average to compensate (Maryland).

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#128

Post by kenster07 »

lightblade wrote: post #126
imaginenore wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, Facebook, Amazon paying significantly more is a myth, even if you include all the "benefits" (most of which most of us would never use).

According to Glassdoor, Google pays 200k average and up 300k for software engineers. The industry average hangs around 100k for pretty much any salary data on the internet. Quote from my manager after a candidate turned down our offer: "We're not Google". This is responding to the candidate's "unreasonable" salary expectations. So yes, I do believe there are companies paying significantly more.

Patently false.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm

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