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Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

guernicamag.com

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Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all of Europe 4 weeks of paid holidays and a regular 8-hour workday are the norm. And university is free or very affordable. What I'm saying is that poor working conditions and crippling student debt is a policy choice.

I agree, except that people in Europe aren't paid for their holidays, but for their work. Companies are simply mandated to give you 4 weeks+ off per year - that money is of course deducted from what they would pay you otherwise. Not saying that is a bad thing; actually, it probably improves overall productivity vs the US model. But it's not a free lunch, and it's not the employer's charity - it's the money people act…

I don't know where you got this idea, but it is just wrong. Of course, employers are free to do whatever back of the envelope calculation they want to decide your salary, but the law in France, the UK, and most other countries is about "paid leave" and that's exactly how it works.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say if there is a distortion or limiting arrangement, it's not a free market, and thus its participants behave differently, because they can't freely take their decisions. If people take their decisions freely, quite often money is not the top priority, but more traditional - and human - values may be.

>I'd say if there is a distortion or limiting arrangement, it's not a free market, Then the term "free market" is an oxymoron. By conjuring a market , which deals with money, property, and profit therein , you have already made it unfree.

And why is that? If you make a profit, you sell something for more than the sum of its parts. You add value and get something in return. Property is just stuff you kept after an exchange. Money is a medium of exchange. Where is the unfree part?

IRL, there are lots of problems (in general), most of them not from markets, but lots also because people make bad decisions in markets. I think those are communication problems, though - people not agreeing on values. So many people scream "market failure", but nobody ever screams "voter/election failure", when people make bad decisions there that cause problems.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, except that people in Europe aren't paid for their holidays, but for their work. Companies are simply mandated to give you 4 weeks+ off per year - that money is of course deducted from what they would pay you otherwise. Not saying that is a bad thing; actually, it probably improves overall productivity vs the US model. But it's not a free lunch, and it's not the employer's charity - it's the money people act…

I don't know where you got this idea, but it is just wrong. Of course, employers are free to do whatever back of the envelope calculation they want to decide your salary, but the law in France, the UK, and most other countries is about "paid leave" and that's exactly how it works.

Yes, that's the part you SEE. But I'm pretty sure your boss doesn't pay your "paid vacation" out of his own money - it's part of the calculation of the total package they have to pay you (including your desk, the money they might have to pay to headhunters to acquire you, ...), mandatory state "insurances" or fees.

They only pay the value of the package - you can calculate your hourly rate on total yearly pay / yearly hours worked, or are free to imagine you get paid total yearly pay / total hours of the year, and then boom, you're also paid for the vacations, for weekends, for the nights and so on. But in fact you're only paid because your boss knows what value you provide and how many hours you'll be there that year.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#264
post #92

It is stunning that a public school teacher apparently makes almost 2x what a college teacher makes, at least in California. Mind you, I am not arguing that school teachers should make less, collage profs should make more. This is amazing though, were is the money going. Anecdotally, I think a lot of the money is spent on outside services through a corrupt bidding process. Back in 2008 I used to run a document scanni…

Yes. I worked for a university briefly as a staff member. Our university sung far and wide about how it just raised $400 million for its endowment in its most recent fundraising campaign, and yet, it couldn't afford to pay me more than a $25,000 salary in the IT department. How on earth is this possible? It's probably in all the unseen costs they pay out in contracts to subcontractors. But another clue might be this:…

> there were several ongoing, large construction projects

This seems obvious to me. When someone donates millions of dollars to a university, they want their name on a building. The Thomas J Somebody Architecture Building. The Susan C Millar Library.

Nobody wants the Frank T Frankhauser IT Department payroll fund.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and an informed public are the answer; not avoiding government altogether." One small edit - an informed AND ENGAGED public. We now have a perfect cycle in the US. - Government isn't working, so people believe government can't work. - Government can't work in the future because very few participate. Wash, rinse, repeat - and remove funding for education while you're going along to make sure people are not getting in…

> Government can't work in the future because very few participate. Also, it feels to me that "participate" has lost half its meaning: people think voting is enough. IMHO, the other half of participation is running for office. Many people complain about all candidates presented before them, but wouldn't put in the work to run themselves.

That also speaks to the standard of who qualifies as an acceptable political candidate, these days. There used to be more elite offices, for which one required a good-old boys network, and more populist ones, for which qualifications were more open. Nowadays, the media rage-circus gets set off by so many different things that even the so-called "populist" offices only support the electability of a very narrow, conformist range of candidates.

See, for example, the electoral loss of Eric Cantor.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#266
post #190

I'm often sad and happy when reading this problem. Sad because it's the state of things, which sucks! And happy because the more that it's said the more chance there is that instructors will actually be paid well, and students can learn in an environment that doesn't treat their faculty as cheap throw away labor. This addresses many of the issues that we are solving with our startup Oplerno.

Exactly why do you think that discussing this issues in the open will automatically result in "instructors will actually be paid well, and students can learn in an environment that doesn't treat their faculty as cheap throw away labor."???

If the information in this article does not result in behavior changes (non tenured lecturers walking out of raw deals, or students requiring their University to disclose and guarantee a minimum percentage of courses taught by full time professors, or employers refusing to hire candidates coming out of degree mills) for a significant percentage of the incumbents, absolutely nothing is going to happen.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#267
post #190

I'm often sad and happy when reading this problem. Sad because it's the state of things, which sucks! And happy because the more that it's said the more chance there is that instructors will actually be paid well, and students can learn in an environment that doesn't treat their faculty as cheap throw away labor. This addresses many of the issues that we are solving with our startup Oplerno.

Exactly why do you think that discussing this issues in the open will automatically result in "instructors will actually be paid well, and students can learn in an environment that doesn't treat their faculty as cheap throw away labor."??? If the information in this article does not result in behavior changes (non tenured lecturers walking out of raw deals, or students requiring their University to disclose and guara…

As a student, or parent, knowing that many universities are paying their adjunct instructors poorly meaning the instructors are turning their classes into popularity contests - by inflating grades and making the class 'easy' - to ensure that they have a job next year would worry me. I interpret it to mean that a degree from some 'reputable' universities might be as good as one of the degree mill universities. My hope is that this will worry people who are taking on huge debts for degrees which might turn out to be worthless.

The adjuncts in the article and the ones that have recently been in the news, such as the homeless professor in the NYT, are the tip of the iceberg. And without adjuncts talking about it in the open nobody would know.

The kind of behavior change you are suggesting doesn't happen overnight, and certainly doesn't happen without there being viable alternatives. This is why we are trying to create a viable alternative.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wealth does not pass three generations. - Chinese proverb (Disclaimer: I'm one of them darned kids too.) I've only become aware of recently [1][2], but I've started to get the feeling that this "fun phenomenon" is something endemic to Generation Y. [1] http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-u... [2] http://ejmas.com/pt/2012pt/ptart_tong_teacher24-1210.html tl;dr = Generation 1 builds wealth from…

> Wealth does not pass three generations. - Chinese proverb Not true. Gregory Clark has an awesome book on this, The Son Also Rises . Social status has a heritability of 0.7ish in every society he measured it in. That's almost as high as the upper bound estimate for IQ. To give an idea of how powerful heritability of social status/roles is consider this: Norman surnames are over represented among the battlefield casu…

[I've revised this comment several times now, but I don't actually know where we disagree. I'm just leaving it as is for now.]

> Gregory Clark has an awesome book on this, The Son Also Rises.

I haven't read Clark's book personally. But a passage via SSC [1] (a link which I cited for you to follow and actually read):

> efforts to democratise education and eliminate discrimination over the past century appear to have had no discernible effect on mobility

which is, uh, sort of better relates to the toppish-level discussion.

SSC cited how Georgia raffled off the land they stole from the Cherokee. The white lotto-winning descendants weren't appreciably better off. This exemplifies how dynastic wealth can diminish because of a lack of some intangible value (work ethic? genes?), which incidentally Gen Y may not have inherited from Gen X and the Baby Boomers. I.e. I see no issues with my theory so far.

Also your Socrates quote is off point. The Greeks had this notion that civilization had descended from a Golden Age to a Silver Age, and from there a Bronze Age. They also believed civilization would continue to decline linearly. This is obviously silly since the Western World's economy has appreciated a wazzilion fold since the Renaissance. But the point of the Chinese Proverb was more consistent with the "Mandate of Heaven/Dynastic Cycle" meme. I.e. dynastic wealth ebbs and flows like a business cycle. This idea is incompatible with neither dynastic long-term growth nor societal long-term growth.

[1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-th...

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#269
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems very misleading to say that they are being paid $X/hour if the denominator is supposed to represent the number of class hours rather than the number of hours worked actually spent working. Everyone will assume the latter, so you should be explicit about that. As everyone who has done any teaching knows, the time spent standing in front of a class is just a small part of the total required time.

Yes I do understand it, but it's the way they were giving out contracts at the school. I've seen one of them. It just says something like. You will be paid xxx$/h. Your course A has 40 hours. Your course B has 60 hours.

I mean it's fine for the contracts to be worded like that, it's spelled out and both parties understand it. It's confusing for you to come here and say that teachers make $100/hour, because people will assume that you mean for each hour worked. You should try to convert your numbers into the units that everyone else is using.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#270
post #258
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Several highly lucrative drugs came from bio research conducted in the rainforest. That research was probably conducted in rainforests protected as a national park, right? At least, I highly doubt that the pharmaceutical companies actually acquired the land before conducting research, or that they would bother buying entire rainforests (to protect the ecosystem) if there wasn't a state to protect them. An anarcho-c…

> If each of these small states were completely autonomous, and had to legislate their entire body of law, the citizens would care more, and they would develop more representative and accountable voting systems and institutions, due to the extent of the government's responsibilities. I see several possible problems with this approach. I had similar thoughts in the years past, an I was wondering what your opinions wer…

> 1. Inconsistent laws in a small geographical area.

Having different window tinting laws is a good example of the kind of baseless legal inconsistency that could harm a region's competitiveness. If the states of a region could not come to an agreement on window tinting, it would probably damage their reputation elsewhere.

> In your proposed system you would have all kinds of inconsistent laws.

Although there's little reason to differ on window tinting laws, I can imagine reasonable states having different opinions on, say, engine noise limits. This leads to the same kind of inconvenience, but yet is more understandable. Nonetheless, if the people of a (small) state don't want loud engines (or perhaps they want to ban driving altogether) in their neighborhood, isn't that their right?

> The only solution I see would be for all of the small governments to gather together and agree on some standard set of laws that they will all implement.

Right, so for any matter that calls for it, you would hope that neighboring states would be able to agree to pass identical pieces of legislation. The Australian states do this all the time (when the pre-existing law wasn't federal).

> But than you are more or less back to square one.

No, there's a very significant difference between a collection of autonomous states agreeing to a certain piece of legislation, and a collection of states being forced to abide by a piece of legislation passed by a federal parliament.

In the former, if a company wants to coerce the entire country on some political issue, it has to coerce the politicians of every single state: in a federation, it need only coerce the federal politicians.

If an independent state thinks a law is bad (e.g. wants to legalize marijuana), it can remove it without being beholden to outside forces. If the law was made by a federal parliament, it can only be undone by the federal parliament.

If an independent state thinks a program is bad (e.g. a war, a department, currency devaluation), it can remove itself (personnel/funding) on its own volition.

Regional agreements are very different to regional parliaments.

> This is a problem for automotive laws, food safety, building codes, etc

Buildings don't tend to get up and walk into a different neighborhood. I think that if the people of a state want certain building codes (or none at all!), that's their right. I don't think it's a big ask of construction companies to abide by the codes of the state they're building in: they do that all the time today.

I think regional agreements could be justified for things that are inherently mobile, or that make sense to operate at scale: automotive laws, food safety laws, airport administration, public health insurance, extradition, public broadcaster funding, university funding (maybe), infrastructure (telecoms, roads, train tracks), park administration, military, ...

The difference here is that if some state doesn't want to contribute to a regional health insurance fund, it doesn't have to.

> 2. Large infrastructure projects

Right, this is harder when you have many autonomous states, but they're still certainly doable. If there's an imperative to do something, the states will come to agreement.

States that contribute to interstate highways could sell permits to their citizens as part of their car registration. There could be toll booths to sell temporary permits to non-citizens. This way, if states A, B and C want to build highways between each other, but state D, adjacent to A and B, doesn't want to contribute, then A, B and C can fairly bill the citizens of D that end up using that highway anyway.

> If we were to switch to the township system, than that research would not be sponsored any more.

Why not? Research would only stop being sponsored by a state if the people of that state didn't want to sponsor it. And if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced to.

If your point is that something like the Cold War would never happen in small-state anarchy, then I concede that. But, for all the merits of the space race, it was not worth the risk of the Cold War.

By the way, check your thens and thans :)

> However, a State system might work. The Federal Government would be responsible for...

Again, it seems like you're confounding the differences between having many independent states, and having a federation of states. My points above stand against federations (as in, federated parliaments). Federations should not exist: they are a remnant of a bygone era of imperialism and war-mongering. If by "federal government" you're referring to agreements between most states to pass some legislation (e.g. open borders), then sure, I'm with you. But if you're talking about having a legally-usurping federal parliament that is in command of the military, then I'm not.

Your post basically makes the point that cooperation is harder when you have more autonomous states. I agree, but I think (1) states will cooperate when there is an imperative to do so, (2) if a state doesn't want to cooperate, then that's their democratic right, and (3) by having the choice of cooperation, states can experiment, and better ideas will flourish.

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