Earlier quoted context omitted.
How often did he change employers? I can't see how changing often somehow prevents learning. Even if he changes his employer every year, there should easily be enough time to learn.
I'd guess that someone who jumps ship every year or two years will know more than someone of equivalent experience who's stayed at the same place for a decade. I learn the most the first six months at a new job. Relatedly, there's the big benefit of much higher knowledge transfer of best practices in markets where job mobility is high. Individual companies, of course, end up giving up equal amounts of knowledge to pe…
Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
61–70 of 207 posts
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#62HR is really a problem here (at least in the software industry). Pay is usually based on title and how many people you manage, but I think that's pathological for managing developers because developers aren't interchangeable. You have huge variances in skills and knowledge. The thing is, development skills scale in a way most job skills can't. You can have at developer that has 10x more impact than other developers.…
This resonates with me so much. I've left a few companies after having conversations which ended with my manager saying exactly this. In most cases they have ended up hiring somebody else at a salary higher than mine.
It really confuses me. I usually don't want to leave these companies because the work is good and finding a new job can be stressful. They usually don't want me to leave because I do good work and finding a replacement is costly. I don't understand why all this bureaucracy and nonsense about job titles has to get in the way of finding a middle ground.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#63"In 2014, the average employee is going to earn less than a 1% raise and there is very little that we can do to change management’s decision. "
Most good managers know that it costs much more to find a new employee than to retain an experienced one- it takes a lot of time and effort to find a suitable candidate, and then to train them. I believe that given an opportunity, they'd rather pay up a larger raise than originally budgeted, to keep a good performer, than to have to find a replacement. But this rarely happens.
Why? I blame poor communication and avoidance. Most employees are loath to negotiate with their employers, and they're usually not very good at it when they do. Negotiating is hard- it can be scary, uncomfortable and awkward to "demand" hire pay from your manager. It's easier to just think "there's nothing I can do to change their minds, so I'll just have to go find a new job elsewhere". That path allows you to avoid negotiating and still be offered a 10%-20% raise.
What would happen if, before any employee decided to leave for a new job, they met with their manager to discuss the situation? And really thoroughly discuss it- meaning a well prepared case for a solid raise: An outline of the employees successes during the year, details of how they've contributed to the company's bottom line (even in a tangential way), hard stats on what the current job market pays for a someone with their experience, and a soft/gentle reminder of the costs of finding/training a replacement. All done in a calm and professional way.
Would every single manager just hand them a 20% raise and an apology? No. But managers are business minded, and are usually evaluated based on the costs and revenues associated with their team. I'd like to think that given a convincing argument like the one above, a good number of them would respond logically and offer larger, more reasonable raises.
Ideally a high performing employee shouldn't have to do that- management should recognize their contributions and the costs of find a replacement. But that's not reality. Pushing for a 10-20% raise for employees at the annual budget meeting would be met with responses that a manager is prematurely trying to solve a problem that hasn't yet presented itself.
So I believe the best solution is for employees to have those difficult negotiation meetings before they decide to jump ship. It won't work every time, but it'd work more than not having those discussions at all.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd guess that someone who jumps ship every year or two years will know more than someone of equivalent experience who's stayed at the same place for a decade. I learn the most the first six months at a new job. Relatedly, there's the big benefit of much higher knowledge transfer of best practices in markets where job mobility is high. Individual companies, of course, end up giving up equal amounts of knowledge to pe…
Sure, you learn the most in your first 6 months by quantity but that doesn't mean you learn the most valuable things. You won't learn anything of depth in half a year.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#65HR is really a problem here (at least in the software industry). Pay is usually based on title and how many people you manage, but I think that's pathological for managing developers because developers aren't interchangeable. You have huge variances in skills and knowledge. The thing is, development skills scale in a way most job skills can't. You can have at developer that has 10x more impact than other developers.…
But when many trades can do one recognised exam and that's it and IT those exams change every year and so do the ones you need with there being no single acknowledged qualification that carries with time. Well you can see how as an industry it is a nightmare when you compare it towards other trades.
Put it another way, people will happily pay almost half the cost of the car to have it fixed and the time and parts all get paid for at a rate the garage and part makers all do well.
Have a problem with a PC and the true cost in time and effort to fix it can if properly paid for outstrip the total cost of a PC. Yes there is much waiting but the distractions etc do eat more time on an install than if truly costed would not be as cheap. Hence shops will do this in batch's and automate as much as possible, but still. Often easier to reinstall than clear out and de-virus some users PC and they treat you as if you built it and wrote the operating system and thing everything is a 5 second quick fix as computers are fast.
But as for HR, well they are in many companies a liability regarding IT staff. Personally had an interview were I had two interviews, one IT manager recruiting and tech geek and the other with HR. HR interview was first and she (mostly women in HR, some gender imbalance their that gets ignored unlike other trades) said, your bit too young for the type of money your asking for and was very belitterling in attitude.
Had tech interview, wiped the floor and was offered more than I was asking for, turned it down as no way was I going to expose myself to such an HR department like that. But sadly seen many unsuitable people in HR regarding IT staff and it is as you say an issue more than people truly admit. How else do you explain rejections for being over-qualified -- those are most of the time HR filtering and you never even make the tech managers desk, though not like the manager is technical these-days either.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#66The conclusion of the article- that the easiest way to ensure you secure large raises every few years is to job hop, is probably true. But I think it takes a very defeatist attitude towards negotiating raises with present employers: "In 2014, the average employee is going to earn less than a 1% raise and there is very little that we can do to change management’s decision. " Most good managers know that it costs much…
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree with this. One of the side effects of this is your top performers are always jumping and the people who tend to stay the longest tend to be average or below average.
or they might just enjoy there jobs enough to not need to move.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#68I've known people who stay for 4 months at a new higher-paying gig and then leave. Because the paycheck and new title didn't make up for the toxic culture/culture clash that they dove into. Since you see them more than you see your real friends, the people you work with become your extended family of sorts. "If all you get from work is a paycheck, you are underpaid" -Jim Rohn Daniel Pink says it best. The best jobs g…
Beyond a certain point where a person can afford the basics, housing, food, healthcare, ability to go on vacation, provide for family. A higher paycheck might not necessarily translate to feeling better. The little things -- bad toxic co-workers, a long commute, un-interesting projects, clueless managements, unfairness, all those things might seem minor at first in face of a large paycheck but just like water grindin…
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing is a lot of people value the security or aren't aware of the difference between market and their pay. Let's say this is 80% of people. If you're corporate HR, you can retain 80% of your top talent without big pay increases and promotions while knowing that you'll lose the top 20%. This may be palatable whereas it wouldn't be if you were only retaining 60%. I think Google and FB were the first to figure out…
You can retain 80% of your talent. You will be able to retain approximately 0% of your top talent, which is certainly a number less than 20% of your total talent pool.
Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less
#70> It’s a fact that employees are underpaid. I just have to comment on that line in the conclusion of the article... When Forbes, Forbes!, states unequivocally that employees are underpaid, it's probably time to sit up and take notice.