Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less • Hacker News Board

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#11

Post by arkitaip » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:30 PM UTC

lucisferre wrote: post #4

This is fascinating that there is actually hard evidence for this, but it's not surprising to me given my own experiences. When I first started out as an "intermediate" software developer (after a couple years as doing contract work) I was poached twice within a year of taking a position, both times the offers were at least 30% higher, an amount my existing employers where highly unlikely to match (in fact in the sec…

Have you seen any of Daniel Pink's work on what motivates people in business? It might inspire you to focus on other incentives than just pay salary increases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#12

Post by wallflower » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:31 PM UTC

I've known people who stay for 4 months at a new higher-paying gig and then leave. Because the paycheck and new title didn't make up for the toxic culture/culture clash that they dove into. Since you see them more than you see your real friends, the people you work with become your extended family of sorts.

"If all you get from work is a paycheck, you are underpaid" -Jim Rohn

Daniel Pink says it best. The best jobs give you autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Even better, if you create a business that does the same.

http://deliveringhappiness.com/the-motivation-trifecta-auton...

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#13

Post by the_af » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:37 PM UTC

michaelfeathers wrote: post #10

For those of us in software development, an important thing to think about is what this does to code. The industry is full of old codebases tended by people who were never involved in the planning and initial design of those systems. Knowledge transfer rarely happens sufficiently to prevent accelerating maintenance headaches. I think that we really need to find different ways of developing software to deal with this…

I had one junior guy who had been working for some years confess to me that he hadn't learned much in all his years of working. The reason? He was always chasing better pay, which in software development almost always means changing employers, and he never stayed long enough to learn the ropes of any job.

Granted, he was a junior developer, but I can see this applying to people with more "seniority" (measured in years, obviously).

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#14

Post by _delirium » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:39 PM UTC

This is plausible, though I'd be more confident in the numbers if someone could get data on total earnings over a period. Apart from salaries, those are impacted in either direction by, at least: voluntary termination and/or signing bonuses (in the plus column) and periods of unemployment between jobs (in the minus column). I don't know if those would change the totals significantly, but it's a fairly dangerous assumption to take two different groups and assume 10-year earnings are really [10 x $avg_salary], and therefore that comparing $avg_salary gives the full picture.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#15

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:40 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #3

My best raises occurred when I went back to a previous employer after working somewhere else for a few years. Sure, job hop every three of four years, but also consider going back to work for previous explorers.

At a megacorp a fairly senior guy said to me, "This company is a great first, third, and fifth job."

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#16

Post by bubbleRefuge » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:41 PM UTC

michaelfeathers wrote: post #10

For those of us in software development, an important thing to think about is what this does to code. The industry is full of old codebases tended by people who were never involved in the planning and initial design of those systems. Knowledge transfer rarely happens sufficiently to prevent accelerating maintenance headaches. I think that we really need to find different ways of developing software to deal with this…

Good point. I've worked at 8 places in a 15 year career and have never seen a good code base. I've seen lots of clever code and some spots where the code quality was good but tight, clean , efficient, un-bloated, well doc'd code with automated tests on a large scale: nah, nicht.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#17

Post by yalogin » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:45 PM UTC

The one missing piece here is the age of the employee. Of course this is true when you start out. Does it still hold after you acquire 15 years experience? Isn't that when the stagnation and preference towards younger worker bees supposed to happen? The article is kind of useless without that one piece. It does not give the whole picture.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#18

Post by jgmmo » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:45 PM UTC

You know, reading this thoroughly - the statistic is alittle unclear in the title.

The real stat is -- Over the course of a 10 year career, if you don't stay at any jobs for more than 2 years, then you make 50% more. This becomes a larger number if the career length increases.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#19

Post by rdtsc » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:48 PM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #12

I've known people who stay for 4 months at a new higher-paying gig and then leave. Because the paycheck and new title didn't make up for the toxic culture/culture clash that they dove into. Since you see them more than you see your real friends, the people you work with become your extended family of sorts. "If all you get from work is a paycheck, you are underpaid" -Jim Rohn Daniel Pink says it best. The best jobs g…

Beyond a certain point where a person can afford the basics, housing, food, healthcare, ability to go on vacation, provide for family. A higher paycheck might not necessarily translate to feeling better.

The little things -- bad toxic co-workers, a long commute, un-interesting projects, clueless managements, unfairness, all those things might seem minor at first in face of a large paycheck but just like water grinding a rock, those little things every day will eat your soul.

Re: Employees That Stay In Companies Longer Get Paid Less

#20

Post by scarmig » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 4:53 PM UTC

caw wrote: post #6

mark_l_watson wrote: post #3

My best raises occurred when I went back to a previous employer after working somewhere else for a few years. Sure, job hop every three of four years, but also consider going back to work for previous explorers.

Some companies have a limit on the number of times you can work for them, in order to prevent people from hopping and coming back for more money. I think a previous company I worked at had a limit of 2 employment periods, which they instituted (supposedly) after a large number of people took voluntary separation and then came back later after the company started growing more. The next time a voluntary separation came…

This seems equal parts petty and self-defeating to me.

No one except the worst performers are going to stay at a place when they see market salaries rising substantially everywhere else. So what this does is hamstring the company from re-hiring the top performers who could easily get new, higher-paying jobs at other companies.

Equally bad is that the weak employees will have gained substantial organizational power, so they'll be making decisions by virtue of time served instead of skill and knowledge.