Live data from Hacker News

We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

slate.com

51–60 of 162 posts

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#51
post #45

[deleted]

Lewis/Rao are certainly relevant, and indeed, OP spends several paragraphs on them:

> It isn’t easy, of course. In 2013, Randall Lewis of Google and Justin Rao of Microsoft released the paper “On the Near Impossibility of Measuring the Returns on Advertising.” In it, they analyzed the results of 25 different field experiments involving digital ad campaigns, most of which reached more than 1 million unique viewers. The gist: Consumer behavior is so erratic that even in a giant, careful trial, it’s devilishly difficult to arrive at a useful conclusion about whether advertisements work. > > For example, when the researchers calculated the return on investment for each ad campaign, the median standard error was a massive 51 percent. In other words, even if the analysis suggested an ad buy delivered a 50 percent return, it was possible that the company actually lost money. You couldn’t say for sure. “As an advertiser, the data are stacked against you,” the researchers concluded. That bodes poorly for your typical marketing schmo trying to glean meaning from a Google analytics page—all he can do is try to stack enough data to overcome his statistical problems. > > Still, in an email, Lewis told me that he believes “online ads absolutely work.” Or, at least, they can work. For instance, Lewis and his Google colleague David Reiley have written papers showing that display ads on Yahoo led to more customers making purchases in stores. The problem, Lewis argues, is that most analytics firms aren’t scientific enough about measuring profitability. Because they don’t run real experiments, he thinks most end up conflating correlation and causation.

(It's a very nice paper, I think, one of the most insightful applications of power analysis I've seen.)

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#52

They're a bit vague when describing the "I-was-going-to-buy-it-anyway" problem, but it sounds like they're mainly talking about PPC ads on search engines stealing from SEO links on the same pages. (Some of it seems to be talking about stealing sales from the direct channel, which I have no idea how to handle.) If your website is already tracking ad performance on a per-ad basis (i.e., tracking all the clicks on that…

There are other reasons to advertise in search engines on your branded keywords.

For starters, you have account wide and campaign wide quality scores which impact how much you pay per click across your entire account. Having branded keywords which will have high quality scores can help lower all your costs.

Secondly, your competitors can advertise on your brand even if its trademarked. Owning the top position is cheaper for you and a good idea.

Third of all, You would think a brand would want to own as much of the search results page as possible. It will drive up clicks even on your organic listings.

There are also many case studies that show paid search for branded keywords getting more traffic than just organic listings.

I'll search for a product and amazon all the time. I would just easily buy that same product from Walmart if they had it for less.

Branded search does not mean they will buy from you anyway. It could mean that, but it certainly doesn't guarantee that.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#53
Advertising by definition is Arbitrage. Leveraging a disconnect between the value of the audience and the cost to reach and engage them with content. Efficient Markets dictates that over time advertising will become less effective. It is the natural progression of all advertising.

Here's an article I wrote a while ago about how content marketing and native advertising are the same thing converging on a point where modern day advertising stops working... http://www.adotas.com/2014/05/surviving-the-adpocalypse-what...

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#54
We have no idea if online ads actually work at the scale of huge corporate brands competing for mindshare. I'm pretty sure it works for smaller outfits - every time I find an appropriate place to run an ad campaign, I see a permanant uptick in readers of my web comic. Eventually I'll have gotten everyone in that place who's going to be interested in my stuff, and I move on.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#55
post #19

I remember reading the tobacco industry was actually secretly grateful when the EU banned them from advertising. As I remember it, they were in a stale-mate. The market was pretty much divided up. Most people were loyal to their brand and that was that. Despite that, they were spending a massive amount of money on advertising even though their market shares remained unchanged. The reason was that if one of them stopp…

NB, while tobacco ads are banned from TV, they are still everywhere on outdoor advertising, at least here in Germany. Actually, I went on a "street art tour" that turned out to be sponsored by a cigarette company, and they were handing out free cigarettes . So: tobacco advertising is alive and well in Germany.

Oh, over here that's been banned as well. I thought it was an EU thing but I guess it was our government. They're even banned from sponsoring events.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#56

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

For medium scale purchases with many interchangeable competitors, this may be true. But for cheap impulse purchase and for high-end commodities, brand still matters quite a bit.

Apple and Samsung are two great examples of higher end companies whose products aren't appreciably superior or inferior to most of their competitors, but through relentless advertising, they have made themselves seem distinct from their competitors.

A significant function of advertising is to reinforce decisions. Very few people buy a car because they saw an ad for it, or a iPhone, for that matter. But the ad serves to reinforce the decision of those who already bought the product, decreasing buyers remorse. It's the reason most higher end car ads are selling the idea of a car rather than the car itself. Ditto with the older iPhone and iPods ads.

And a similar thing is true for low end, cheap products. People buy Coca Cola over store brand cola because of the brand identity coca cola creates. They may be totally unaware of it, but it's just enough of an impetus to push someone to spend the extra $1.50 on a 12 pack of Coke vs another brand.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#57

Advertising by definition is Arbitrage. Leveraging a disconnect between the value of the audience and the cost to reach and engage them with content. Efficient Markets dictates that over time advertising will become less effective. It is the natural progression of all advertising. Here's an article I wrote a while ago about how content marketing and native advertising are the same thing converging on a point where mo…

One of the flaws of many advertising strategies is that it assumes the main flaw of the market is imperfect information. However that requires a rational consumer. And Consumers are not rational. Selling ideas is as important as the good itself.

Take most car advertising for example. A significant portion of the ads are from dealers advertising sales. Those are classic attempts to correct for imperfect information on the part of the consumer. But the other portion of the ads are all about how you should feel in a given car.

When you see an add for a luxury sedan combined with platitudes about performance, speed, and engineering or a truck and cliches about America, the goal isn't to sell you on the merits of the vehicle, but to sell you on a concept of a brand. The ideal targets for these ads aren't actually consumers currently in the market for a new car, but the people who just bought a new car. The people for whom the shine is starting to come off the rose. If you sell someone the idea that yes their purchase makes them special, then they are more likely to be happy with their decision, more likely to repeat that decision later, more likely to be a unwitting brand ambassador.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#58
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are trying to do the thing BMW and Apple do where they are trying to make you feel good about a decision you already made.

Or at least trying to avoid the feeling of being stalked you might get if their all-pervading ad-retargeting campaign that follows you round the internet for weeks after you first visit their website stops the day you actually buy.

Hey, if it keeps you from returning the product or avoiding a merchant, it has worked.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#59
post #56

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

For medium scale purchases with many interchangeable competitors, this may be true. But for cheap impulse purchase and for high-end commodities, brand still matters quite a bit. Apple and Samsung are two great examples of higher end companies whose products aren't appreciably superior or inferior to most of their competitors, but through relentless advertising, they have made themselves seem distinct from their compe…

Apple and Samsung are two great examples of higher end companies whose products aren't appreciably superior or inferior to most of their competitors

I'm not sure this is true: Samsung is not a (particularly) higher-end company, and their phones at least are lower cost than Apple.

In the case of Apple, their phones were appreciably better up until two years ago or so. Their laptops have been physically better in fit and finish for at least a decade (http://paulgraham.com/mac.html).

Post reply on HN