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Startup advice: cold recruiting

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Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#111

Post by S4M »

Ologn wrote: post #48
Jemaclus wrote: post #28

> Always have the ping come from a non-recruiter. I got an email a few days ago from the CEO of a startup in SF. In the email, he followed all of the rules in this email, including trying to get face-to-face chat by offering to get coffee. I'm not really looking for a job but I am open to new opportunities, so I replied and agreed to get coffee. The response comes from a recruiter. What? The CEO sends me an email and…

> YOU contacted me, not the other way around. You have the burden of proof of attracting me to your company. You should be the one jumping through hoops, not me. Yes. I get contacted by a headhunter that says they know of a company looking for engineers. I go on an interview and someone at the company asks me very officiously, "Why do you want to work for this company?" I respond, "I don't know that I do want to work…

> I go on an interview and someone at the company asks me very officiously, "Why do you want to work for this company?" I respond, "I don't know that I do want to work here. I have a job. The headhunter called me and told me there was an opportunity here so I came to check it out". The interviewer didn't say anything, but their expression was slightly shocked. I guess I was supposed to launch into a pitch about how it was always my dream to work at that company.

I rather see it differently. As you said, you have a job and the head hunter told you that this company had opportunities. So common sense dictates that you check briefly what they have to offer before going to the interview. Is it a better pay (you could tell the recruiter "I am currently making X, what would they be willing to offer?"), the chance to use a technology you don't use at your current work place, or you really like what the company is doing - if it's Planetary Resources or Khan Academy that would be understandable.

So if I was the interviewer, I would be surprised about that guy who comes to the interview without bothering to check what's on the table. Apart from that, I agree with you that the recruiting process of many companies is partly designed to show who is the boss, and it's a sad thing IMHO.

Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#112

Post by nbarry »

gdb wrote: post #99
nbarry wrote: post #87

> Don't explain what your company does. ... Google would never send someone an email saying "I work at Google, a search company in Mountain View which is organizing the world's information". The Google comparison is a poor one, since Google is extraordinarily well known, and most start-ups aren't. And even they do describe the team each position is on, at least on its job postings. If I were getting enough cold email…

There's definitely a tradeoff there — the flip side is that after reading a bunch of company descriptions, they all start to blend together. So counterintuitively, a full description can cause your email to be ignored. In my mind, it's all about creating a (genuine!) connection with the person, and being cautious about consuming their time.

Hmm, good point. Maybe there's a sweet spot there where you give enough detail to explain what your company does and what you're looking for from the person you're reaching out to, but don't go too long. Like, maybe 1-2 sentences max. "Our company is seeking to disrupt X industry through disintermediation, and I thought you looked like the badass engineer who could help us take our user interface to the next level."

Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#113

Post by Jemaclus »

gedrap wrote: post #90
Jemaclus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I got an offer from a YC company about a year ago. The offer was lower than I currently make by a large margin. I tried to negotiate, and the CEO came back in a huff and basically said I was an idiot for turning down the job, and why do I even bother with startups in the first place if I want so much money? Well, that's the thing, dude. I don't need your job. You need me . You got the whole thing backwards. A…

But they were offering you to change the world dude! Like social and big data and cloud! This issue was discussed quite a lot on HN over past couple of years. Not sure what those so called CEOs are thinking but it's their lose. There must be some significant personal benefit for me, above money, that I would consider an offer like that. Influential position in a startup working in an area which I find exciting and pr…

I mean, if he'd met me halfway, I probably would have taken the offer. But he didn't. He just basically told me to fuck off. I'm not really sure why he didn't expect negotiation. Maybe I negotiated badly. Sadly, if he'd been polite and said something along the lines of "We just can't afford that salary level. I'm sorry we couldn't work things out," then maybe in a year, when I'm out of a job for whatever reason, I might be willing to come back and take that offer, or at least entertain a new one. But no, he burned that bridge. Either way, I think I dodged a bullet.

But you're right. If he'd made me CTO or some other personal benefit, I would have taken the offer in a heartbeat. For a regular dev salary with regular dev equity, it just wasn't enough. Plus, I already get equity at my current publicly-traded company, which means my equity is worth actual cash. I dunno. The whole thing annoyed me.

Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#114

Post by Jemaclus »

S4M wrote: post #111
Ologn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> YOU contacted me, not the other way around. You have the burden of proof of attracting me to your company. You should be the one jumping through hoops, not me. Yes. I get contacted by a headhunter that says they know of a company looking for engineers. I go on an interview and someone at the company asks me very officiously, "Why do you want to work for this company?" I respond, "I don't know that I do want to work…

> I go on an interview and someone at the company asks me very officiously, "Why do you want to work for this company?" I respond, "I don't know that I do want to work here. I have a job. The headhunter called me and told me there was an opportunity here so I came to check it out". The interviewer didn't say anything, but their expression was slightly shocked. I guess I was supposed to launch into a pitch about how i…

This. And you could do it both ways, too. "I'm very interested in learning X technology, and my background with Y skillset makes me a good fit. From what I can see, this seems like a cool company. That said, one of your people contacted me first, so I'm here to find out more about the position."

Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#115

Post by S4M »

Jemaclus wrote: post #113
gedrap wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they were offering you to change the world dude! Like social and big data and cloud! This issue was discussed quite a lot on HN over past couple of years. Not sure what those so called CEOs are thinking but it's their lose. There must be some significant personal benefit for me, above money, that I would consider an offer like that. Influential position in a startup working in an area which I find exciting and pr…

I mean, if he'd met me halfway, I probably would have taken the offer. But he didn't. He just basically told me to fuck off. I'm not really sure why he didn't expect negotiation. Maybe I negotiated badly. Sadly, if he'd been polite and said something along the lines of "We just can't afford that salary level. I'm sorry we couldn't work things out," then maybe in a year, when I'm out of a job for whatever reason, I mi…

Out of interest, do you know if that company is doing well? I suspect (hope?) that this kind of behavior is a precursor sign of failure.

Re: Startup advice: cold recruiting

#116

Post by Jemaclus »

S4M wrote: post #115
Jemaclus wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if he'd met me halfway, I probably would have taken the offer. But he didn't. He just basically told me to fuck off. I'm not really sure why he didn't expect negotiation. Maybe I negotiated badly. Sadly, if he'd been polite and said something along the lines of "We just can't afford that salary level. I'm sorry we couldn't work things out," then maybe in a year, when I'm out of a job for whatever reason, I mi…

Out of interest, do you know if that company is doing well? I suspect (hope?) that this kind of behavior is a precursor sign of failure.

They're a YC company and got another round of funding a few months ago, so I imagine they're still around and doing okay. The same job listings are still on their website. Not sure if they've filled any of them or not. shrug

I don't have much faith that they'll do well, but I'm not a VC for a reason, so.. :)

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