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Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

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Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#111

Post by jckt »

soup10 wrote: post #4

So the cost of college is skyrocketing and teachers are getting paid less and less. Where is the money going??

I think another problem (though probably minor compared to the bloated bureaucracies everyone else is mentioning) is that the teaching quality doesn't matter as much to students these days.

This is a UK source, but I think it reflects the view of most students in the West:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14616788

I feel bad for saying something like "kids these days" (I'm one of them, admittedly) but "fun" seems to be a big factor in a student's choice of a school today. Admittedly, this is mostly based on anecdote and stereotypes (I think there's a reason why "college life" is commonly associated with parties and frats). I won't say that the social aspect of education is unimportant, but it seems that rather than making the education itself more "fun", universities in the last few decades have gradually increased funding for recreational buildings, big events, frats, and sports [1], etc. Of course, I don't know how significant these costs actually are, and I'm happy to be convinced by some budgetary data if this is actually a non-issue.

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/15/athleti...

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#112

Post by dgabriel »

worldpeace wrote: post #99

All of these brilliant people have driven their institutions into the ground chasing rankings and fads like diversity and prestige buildings. Universities have taken on mountains of debt, and just like the portfolios of those university trained traders on Wall Street that destroyed the world a few years ago, they are very susceptible to unthinkable events like young people no longer finding college worth the money. I…

Diversity is not a fad, and college entrance is more competitive than it has ever been.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#113

Post by HarryHirsch »

ams6110 wrote: post #108
jpulec wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at DoIT before graduating and moving out to the Bay Area. And your characterization regarding its bureaucracy and efficiency are pretty spot on.

I worked at another Big Ten IT division. The amount of productive work per salary dollar would shock anyone in the start-up or corporate sector. Staff would roll in from 9:00 to 10:00AM, surf the web or fool around with some toys for a couple of hours, take a 90 minute lunch, go to a few meetings, and be out the door at 4:30 or 5:00PM. A lot of these people making 6 figures or close to it in a town where that is a VE…

In all of Europe 4 weeks of paid holidays and a regular 8-hour workday are the norm. And university is free or very affordable. What I'm saying is that poor working conditions and crippling student debt is a policy choice.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#114

Post by cpwright »

vacri wrote: post #93
liveoneggs wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what, exactly, is better than lectures and exams?

I don't know about US grading schemes, but here in Australia, pretty much every course has some form of assignments or series thereof. The assignments can be a small or substantial part of the final mark, or even the total final mark, depending on the kind of course. I suspect the same is true in US tertiary institutions, and that railing against exams is just a tired old trope. It's hard to believe that it would be…

My experience is from SUNY Stony Brook (a university run by the state of New York). What goes into the grade, is pretty much entirely up to the professor. I have had very few classes where the whole of the grade was an exam; but there were a few. More often, the homework is some portion of the grade, but it could be minimal (e.g., 10%). For computer science classes and some humanities classes, it was more likely there would be larger projects or term papers. For things like math, the homework was usually a smaller part of the grade. The real advantage of doing the assignments was that you could practice for what would potentially be on the test, and there would be a TA to grade it and give you feedback.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#115

Post by cpwright »

santaclaus wrote: post #37

Do college rankings take the percentage of classes taught by tenure track professors into account? US News should dock schools with greater than X% of courses taught by adjuncts.

From a student's perspective that doesn't necessarily make sense. Tenure track professors could be great researchers, but that doesn't mean they are great teachers. Instructors, adjuncts, or graduate students can all teach well, oftentimes as well as a tenure track professor.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#117

Post by ForHackernews »

dustcoin wrote: post #72
cheepin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research, Sports, executive salaries. There are a lot of costs besides teacher's salaries.

I doubt executive salaries make up a significant portion of any school's budget. Overpaid non-executive administrators are a much larger cost in aggregate, because there are so many of them.

That's not quite true: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/06/higher-eds-for-profit-fut...

"compensation of a single person like Zimmer now approaches the reported inflation-adjusted $3 million annual operating deficit that ended a community resource benefiting both medical students and trauma patients."

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#118

Post by tn13 »

goldfeld wrote: post #2

These basal, fundamental flaws in the educational system give me pause to awe, and a gut feeling the US is gonna get trampled many times over by the likes of China within some decades. So little regulation and such harsh capitalism is eating its heart out bit by bit. I guess what keeps America bright at this point is a legacy from the past century, that's slowly eroding, and the brain drain sucked chiefly out of Asia…

The very reason US education (higher education) is better is because government has kept its dirty nose out of it. American Public schools are pathetic.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#119

Post by rdtsc »

dnautics wrote: post #104
rdtsc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know, like you might have found in the 19th - first half of the 20th century. 19th century? So it is easier to imagine going back to 19th century than a system with an accessible public university system without student loans.

No, 'going back to the 19th century (-first half of the 20th century)' is equivalent to imagining a higher education system without student loans. Don't see what the big deal is.

The point I was trying to make was that somehow it was easier to imagine time travelling than just looking "across the pond", oh to say Sweden. Or probably other civilised countries.

Re: Teaching college is no longer a middle-class job, and everyone should care

#120

Post by tn13 »

soup10 wrote: post #4

So the cost of college is skyrocketing and teachers are getting paid less and less. Where is the money going??

People do not get paid based on how much money the business makes. On the other hand they get paid based on how much value they add.

Someone whose skill is French Language is surely is not much worth compared to someone who knows how to make pancakes. I will not be surprised that a lot of college teachers teaching skills of no use are finding it hard to make enough money.

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