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Things You Love are Made with Code

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Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#31

Post by thegeomaster »

kllrnohj wrote: post #22
thegeomaster wrote: post #18

While I commend initiatives like this, I don't think people should be so eager to make girls start coding. If your daughter shows no interest whatsoever after being exposed to coding, well, maybe it just isn't her cup of tea. It's the same with boys, of course. I know so much people who had been pressured into the same profession as their parents. Not all of them today love what they do. We should be helping kids dis…

We force kids to learn math even if they have no interest in it. Same with history, chemistry, biology, etc... Forcing them to learn an intro to something is very different from forcing them into a career about that something. They don't know whether or not they like it if they've never tried it. This seems to be a campaign to get young girls to try it, nothing more.

Not just forcing them into a career about something, but e.g. being disappointed (or, more precisely, showing that in frobt of them) if they don't express interest. Of course you should get as much people you can to try out as much fields as possible to see if they fit. But in my case, I knew from the first two months of studying chemistry I don't like it, and likewise, from the day I wrote my first VBA Excel macro I knew I loved making computers do things.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#32

Post by jiggy2011 »

colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

If we have more women in STEM then we must have less men in STEM unless we grow the total number of STEM jobs by the same amount.

So those men who would otherwise be in STEM must move to other professions, which means they either move into other male dominated professions and make them even more unbalanced or there must be an equivalent push to move them into a female dominated industry.

If we do the latter then a possible outcome is a system where we are allocating people to jobs based primarily on demographics rather than interest or aptitude.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#33

Post by sigil »

In the earliest iLuminate photo I can find, Miral is hacking on an Arduino prototype board and staring at piles of glowing EL wire on the floor. Barely anything worked back then. Five years, numerous televised appearances, and 400 Off-Broadway performances later, the company is still doing amazing stuff at the intersection of art and technology. [1]

Miral is the reason why. She can code, she can choreograph, she can manage and inspire people, she can dance, and most importantly, she can pursue a vision relentlessly. She's a great example of that "formidable" quality that pg ascribes to successful founders.

So, while I get why Google is trying to inspire more women to code with this story, there's inspiration here for all of us. Build something you love and don't let the hard stuff stop you. (There will be lots of hard stuff.)

[1] Seriously, go see the show if you're in NYC, it's mind-blowing.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#34

Post by Dewie »

Lewisham wrote: post #27
thegeomaster wrote: post #18

While I commend initiatives like this, I don't think people should be so eager to make girls start coding. If your daughter shows no interest whatsoever after being exposed to coding, well, maybe it just isn't her cup of tea. It's the same with boys, of course. I know so much people who had been pressured into the same profession as their parents. Not all of them today love what they do. We should be helping kids dis…

I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff. So the curiosity and talent is just drained o…

> I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff.

Or it could be puberty.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#35

Post by olderprogrammer »

schoen wrote: post #10

I'm curious about the use of the terminology "code/coding/coder" as distinct from "programming/programmer". I've noticed that a lot of recent programming outreach and education efforts consistently use "learn to code" instead of "learn to program". How come? What connotations do they perceive? Are they intending to refer to a broader set of activities (including document markup, which I wouldn't refer to as programmi…

It's to devalue the profession. Instead of a 'software developer" or even "programmer," now you're just a "coder" or even a "code monkey."

All of these initiatives that claim to want to make programming more accessible, even though it is already extremely accessible in that it doesn't require a degree or licensing and there are a wealth of free tools, books, and other information available online now to get started with, are really intended to change the public's perception of programming from a highly-technical, white collar career to a low-skill trade that is easy and that anyone can do so they can flood the job market with sub-par applicants and drive down wages.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#36

Post by tieTYT »

colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

Where'd you get these numbers?

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#37

Post by martythemaniak »

colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

One thing I haven't seen explicitly stated in this whole debate is that workplace diversity is very much a zero-sum game. If Google / Tech Sector / Random subgroup of the economy is to be representative of the population, those workers have to come from some other equality lop-sided subgroup.

There are structural issues which can cause the workforce as a whole to not be representative of the population - lack of opportunities for poorer people / minorities or lower participation by women due to child-rearing, etc. Even after accounting for those,

I do appreciate the sentiment and effort, but most of what I've seen is empty belly-aching.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#38

Post by steveklabnik »

Dewie wrote: post #34
Lewisham wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff. So the curiosity and talent is just drained o…

> I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff. Or it could be puberty.

I would find it incredibly hard to believe that sexual maturity has anything to do with an interest in STEM. Some kind of evidence would change my mind, however!

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#39

Post by mrgn »

colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

No, and the answer why should be blindingly obvious to any intelligent person: computer engineering (as opposed to your chosen examples of truck driving childcare, and auto repair) is among the most well-paid, economically influential, and entrepreneurial profession today, and will become increasingly so in the future. Gender and race representation is simply of less concern for less aspirational, lower-paid professions that do not require extensive education or access to technical resources.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#40

Post by adamnemecek »

tieTYT wrote: post #36
colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

Where'd you get these numbers?

I'm guessing Bureau of Labor Statistics.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf

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