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What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

thewinnower.com

111–120 of 195 posts

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#111
This paper makes a very fundamental mistake, IMO. If you were to time travel to the future and do a query, you wouldn't query about a past event. You'd query about a present event.

For example, if time travel were created today, we wouldn't go back to 2000 and query about something that happened in 2001. We'd query about Lebron James or Obama.

They should be looking for queries about technology/people/events that are relevant/interesting in the era when time travel is done. Unfortunately, in order to know that you probably need to time travel to the future. :-)

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#112
post #57

I think the methodology of the paper is flawed. Why would a time traveller from the future be discussing "Comet ISON" or "Pope Francis"? According to Wikipedia, comet ISON wasn't ever bright enough to spot with the naked eye, and thus left no significant impact on humanity. It's obviously too early to decide if Pope Francis will leave a deep, significant impact, but odds are against it. For this methodology to really…

Also, what if the first rule of time travel is: 1.) Don't talk about time travel

Time travel is all about breaking rules

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#113
post #92
post #42

I'd be interested to see what arXiv's Impact Factor was if it was calculated like a standard publisher (if possible). I would guess it might be a top ten, based on my anecdotal encounter rate with arXiv (I may self select) and it seems like we're moving into another encyclopaedia situation (open Wikipedia stomps heavily curated Britannica). Frankly, can't wait. Despite all the editor conflict, Wikipedia is still one…

It's not quite a fair comparison, since a whole bunch of published papers end up on arXiv in some form

It is and it isn't (why I included if possible). As counterpoints I would say that:

- A lot of papers end up in a lot of different official journals in some form. Publishing slightly varied versions of the same work across 3-4 different journals is a time honoured tradition. - Actual journals do effectively the same thing that arXiv does, but theoretically with more 'experts' and rigour. - arXiv provides peer review, but in a distributed manner - References to arXiv have become a thing, particularly for papers that existing journals don't think fits their niche. - In several case, papers have been picked up by places like Nature after they appeared on arXiv and because of the exposure.

Personal optimistic bet is a decade, and journals will be dead in their current form.

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#114
post #105
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. His attempts to get his type of paper being published in established physics journals are sort of explained in his last paragraph though. He thinks that there's "room in the world of publishing for science motivated primarily BY public interest, instead of IN THE public interest". Certainly there's no reason why such a journal to exist--free speech and all. I'm not a physicist, but certainly saying that such…

I read him not as suggesting that the public should decide what is good science, but in suggesting that it would be beneficial for more actual science to be done on subjects that interests the public, even if more conventional journal considers it beneath them and funding agencies don't consider them important. Such as this time travel paper: Clearly it capture public imagination, even if the result was negative.

I'm honestly not sure what outcome he's asking for, though. This paper did capture the public imagination! He put it on arXiv.org (where it was accepted after their very minimal but non-zero peer review), and within days he was doing a whole bunch of press interviews.

What was he hoping to accomplish beyond that? Is this about getting another entry on the peer-reviewed publications list in his CV? The paper probably isn't worth that, at least as work in physics. But he's welcome to add a section to his CV about "public outreach" and talk about it there: he'd probably have a lot to say.

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#115
post #7

Perhaps no evidence was found because people from the future have seen this paper and therefore know not to reveal themselves this way!

If there are time travellers from a future, it isn't our future, and this isn't their past - otherwise causality doesn't work. Instead if you travel back in time you travel to a point, which immediately bifurcates into a new reality. I like to think that we're all time travellers, collectively collapsing the universe's wavefunction through will alone... And now I'm onto determinism so I'll shut up.

>I like to think that we're all time travellers, collectively collapsing the universe's wavefunction through will alone... And now I'm onto determinism so I'll shut up.

I like that. Though I would think it is not 'will' but 'life' that interacts with universal determinism, through physical expression of information over time. How that information will express itself (how gene-information will translate into physical realities in each moment) seems in the realm of the unknowable (like turbulent flow or other instances of Lorenz-y chaos in the Universe), and consciousness as one of those gene-expressions makes this even more loopy.

But I've wandered into Leary-esque fascination with faults of perception lately, which ought to stick to the human-describing world of psychology, so I should probably shut up too.

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#116
post #76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first thought reading through this was surprise that he didn't try any non-physics journals. I think any number of journals devoted to a topic like network science, internet research, web science, etc., would have found the topic of the study more within their area of interest. They would also be able to provide better peer review of the methodological/modeling choices, which mostly aren't related to physics.

So then why didn't the editors suggest it for a more appropriate journal rather than call it unpublishable entirely?

> So then why didn't the editors suggest it for a more appropriate journal rather than call it unpublishable entirely?

Because knowledge of out-of-domain journals to which an out-of-domain paper might be appropriate is neither the role nor general competency of a journal's editors (OTOH, general familiarity with the published work in the area in which you are attempting to publish, which necessarily includes some familiarity with the venues in which works in that field are published, is part of the role and presumed competency of a researcher in any field.)

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#117
post #5

Best Quote: "Possibly publication could be coupled with a small amount of Kickstarter-like funding. Cain and I have not discussed the idea further -- we are both too busy -- but if anyone out there on the Internet wants to explore this idea further, consider me a supporter."

I disagree. This is the best quote: " On the money-wasted angle, when doing a Reddit interview about the manuscript, I respond to a question about how this research was funded with the fake answer that we used money left over from our study "Does Tax Payer Money Burn Any Better Than Regular Money?" (Nemiroff & Wilson 2014). In reality, this was an unfunded project."

Here's another bit from the reddit interview[0]:

> Do you believe in time travel? What future knowledge was posted? > Fake answer: Yes, I believe in time travel. I myself like to travel forward in time by one second every second. I live in fear, however, of colliding with non-time travelers who stay fixed at one moment of time.

[0] https://pay.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1va4vq/we_searched_fo...

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#118
post #87
post #9

It's not surprising to me that no physics journals would accept it. Physics journals are, sadly, extremely wary of accepting anything that seems philosophical. For example, serious people writing serious papers on the foundations of quantum mechanics used to have a hell of a time getting them published. To give a particular example (and I hope I'm not mis-remembering), I don't think Lucien Hardy was able to get this…

I wonder if he tried one of the philosophy-of-science, foundations-of-physics, or philosophy-of-physics journals? For example, one of the earlier follow-ups to Hardy's paper was published in Foundations of Physics : http://philpapers.org/rec/SCHQTF-2

Most philosophy journals wouldn't regard this paper as philosophical either. While nobody agrees exactly what the philosophical method is, being a priori is more or less required.

Re: What Happened When We Tried to Publish a Real Paper Investigating Time Travel

#119
post #105
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. His attempts to get his type of paper being published in established physics journals are sort of explained in his last paragraph though. He thinks that there's "room in the world of publishing for science motivated primarily BY public interest, instead of IN THE public interest". Certainly there's no reason why such a journal to exist--free speech and all. I'm not a physicist, but certainly saying that such…

I read him not as suggesting that the public should decide what is good science, but in suggesting that it would be beneficial for more actual science to be done on subjects that interests the public, even if more conventional journal considers it beneath them and funding agencies don't consider them important. Such as this time travel paper: Clearly it capture public imagination, even if the result was negative.

Can you elaborate on "beneficial"? Beneficial for what? Sure, perhaps the time travel paper captured the public imagination. But so does movies and novels.

Though I didn't see him talk about it at length in the blog, I can see that he might have meant that such a journal would be good for interesting future generations in science. But is this really a good idea? They would come into physics, or whatever, with the expectation that such research actually constituted hard science. It is not.

Interesting future generations about science is hugely important, but this is just a dishonest way of doing so.

And also, this may sound a bit harsh, and I might be out of line here, but I think the point of the paper was really to get some attention. And personally I think there's a trend of this happening in physics' interface with the public -- scientists wanting attention for themselves, apparently for the sake of future interest in the field. There seem to be a lot of popular science books these days, many written by genuinely brilliant scientists, who seem to be trying to sell their own theories as truth, like the various string theories and other GUTs. While I am sure that the authors don't really mean to say that their theories have passed the sniff test of science, and that we can put their theories on the same shelf as GR and QM, my observations from friends and people on the internet tell me that a lot of them just gobble it up as truth.

PS: Not saying that the GUT formulations are in anyway comparable to Nemiroff paper.

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