Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
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Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#2Cops are basically saying that they can do illegal things, and then actively conceal them during the discovery process so that defendants cannot challenge the illegal conduct in court. This kind of thing isn't going to stop. Everyone should assume that any unencrypted cell phone calls and texts can and will be examined by law enforcement. Act accordingly.
That said, defense attorneys really need to be on the lookout for cases like this, where only vague references to confidential sources of information are disclosed. If they know the tell-tale signs, they can ask the judge to issue orders during discovery that will put the prosecutor in the position of either being held in contempt of court or disclosing to the defense the specific illegal tactics the police used.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#3Cops are basically saying that they can do illegal things, and then actively conceal them during the discovery process so that defendants cannot challenge the illegal conduct in court. This kind of thing isn't going to stop. Everyone should assume that any unencrypted cell phone calls and texts can and will be examined by law enforcement. Act accordingly. That said, defense attorneys really need to be on the lookout…
> Everyone should assume that any unencrypted cell phone calls and texts can and will be examined by law enforcement. Act accordingly.
Duh. It is a good thing that law enforcement can examine texts and phone calls, unencrypted and encrypted. However, it is unacceptable that doing so is hidden to the courts.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#4Cops are basically saying that they can do illegal things, and then actively conceal them during the discovery process so that defendants cannot challenge the illegal conduct in court. This kind of thing isn't going to stop. Everyone should assume that any unencrypted cell phone calls and texts can and will be examined by law enforcement. Act accordingly. That said, defense attorneys really need to be on the lookout…
> Everyone should assume that any unencrypted cell phone calls and texts can and will be examined by law enforcement. Act accordingly. Duh. It is a good thing that law enforcement can examine texts and phone calls, unencrypted and encrypted. However, it is unacceptable that doing so is hidden to the courts.
Actually, no, not without probable cause. It appears that in some of these cases that the probable cause was "because we bugged his phone".
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#5How is this not a form of perjury?
How does this not get every defendant a new trial?
How many law suits will come of this for violations of people's constitutional rights?
This crap should result in RICO charges and jail time for all parties that knew of this coverup and didn't try to stop it.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#6It appears that there's more going on beneath the surface than we knew about. First, police departments sign NDAs so threatening that they don't want to reveal the use of stringrays. Next, US Marshalls seize Florida records of the use of stingrays. What does this pervasive concealment of the use of IMSI catchers/stingrays mean? I can think of two things:
1. IMSI catchers are used constantly, without warrant and maybe even without any administrative oversight. The discloseed use is the tip of some giant iceberg of surveillance. Revealing the use of IMSI catchers would imply the giant iceberg, even if we don't know where it is.
2. There's some kind of Freudian shame/concealment issue at the DoJ. They know it's un-American (and it is!) but they can't stop doing it for some reason. So, they hide its use.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#7It appears that there's more going on beneath the surface than we knew about. First, police departments sign NDAs so threatening that they don't want to reveal the use of stringrays. Next, US Marshalls seize Florida records of the use of stingrays. What does this pervasive concealment of the use of IMSI catchers/stingrays mean? I can think of two things: 1. IMSI catchers are used constantly, without warrant and maybe…
3. This is a valuable tool for police, and the police worry about criminal countermeasures once it becomes public.
My money is on a combination of 2 & 3.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#8It appears that there's more going on beneath the surface than we knew about. First, police departments sign NDAs so threatening that they don't want to reveal the use of stringrays. Next, US Marshalls seize Florida records of the use of stingrays. What does this pervasive concealment of the use of IMSI catchers/stingrays mean? I can think of two things: 1. IMSI catchers are used constantly, without warrant and maybe…
3. This is a valuable tool for police, and the police worry about criminal countermeasures once it becomes public. My money is on a combination of 2 & 3.
A tool so valuable that both local police, plus the Federal government, will break numerous laws and trample on the rights of citizens to protect the secret of its existence. An existence so secret that the only people to understand the possibility of its existence is anyone who's been paying attention the last decade. So secret in fact, that the Wikipedia page is only about three years old.
I don't care how valuable it is. If it is used by government agencies in a manner that breaks the law, wait, numerous laws and rights, then that implies those agencies feel they are above the law. Once such agencies that enforce the law are no longer beholden to it, things tend to fall apart.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#9How is this not a form of perjury? How does this not get every defendant a new trial? How many law suits will come of this for violations of people's constitutional rights? This crap should result in RICO charges and jail time for all parties that knew of this coverup and didn't try to stop it.
I'm not sure if it would be considered perjury, but I would imagine it easily falls under withholding evidence from the defendant, of which is entitled to such information for their defense.
But I doubt there would be any prosecutions on this because the people to prosecute such things are the the people who benefit from the technology.
Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request
#10The way stingray works is reportedly by pretending to be a cell phone tower. It seems to me this can be used by a smartphone app to monitor for stingray usage.
If the phone knows that it's not moving very fast (Androids certainly know this, I'm sure iPhones can as well), and a new cell phone tower appears suddenly, it seems to me that would be a good indicator somebody is stingraying nearby. (this isn't bulletproof, but would be a good starting point for further data analysis)
An app like this could record and report such incidents, so that we could form a larger picture of how often and how widely it's used.