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Amazon Fire Phone

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Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#281

Post by mwfunk »

brianpgordon wrote: post #244
Consultant32452 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google sells you a device so they can show you an ad encouraging you to buy a rake. In turn Google gets a sliver of the profits from selling a rake in the form of ad revenue. Amazon sells you a device so they can show you an ad encouraging you to buy a rake. Amazon sells you the rake, has it delivered in 2 days, and makes 100% of the profit. It's not that people will actively look for that integration, but that it ex…

That doesn't get Amazon any market share, it just increases their profits - assuming that they can get anyone to buy it in the first place. And even if the money starts rolling in, that's not going to be able to overcome the legendary inertia of the Google Play and Apple app stores. Google and Apple already have the "dump billions on it until people buy it" angle covered.

Market share is only meaningful if the lack of market share makes a particular product untenable. For example, if someone came out with a new platform that was incompatible with everything else- a lack of apps in the beginning is a huge hurdle to overcome, and the platform may die before achieving a critical mass of third-party support.

That is clearly not the case with Amazon. "Just increases their profits" is pretty much the only thing that matters. Dominant market share comes much later, if at all. Dominant market share might even be a bad thing, if attaining it requires a race to the bottom. Most companies would (and should) prefer to sell a million devices with decent margins than 10 million devices with little or no profits. Amazon is known for pursuing market share at the expense of profits, but that's often not the best strategy and they can be excused for not taking it this time.

It's also better from a risk management perspective. For the first iteration of a device like this, it's less risky to try to sell a few of them at reasonable margins then to try to sell a gazillion of them at razor thin margins. The price of failure is far less, and depending on how this one does, then the next time around they can start adding cheaper models and gradually expand the user base. Or not, their choice. It's not always worth it.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#282

Post by opendais »

sharkweek wrote: post #280
opendais wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false in Amazon's case. Amazon sells you a rake made by a 3rd party who was put into FBA by a wholesaler and makes a reasonable cut of the profit in the process. Amazon has more control but also takes all the blame when things go wrong. Tbh, as someone who works at a business who does both the ads & selling stuff via Amazon as a manufacturer...Google actually makes more money off of us than Amazon does. I don…

Amazon hardly takes all the blame when something goes wrong - they mostly just discretely recoup from the vendor all while looking like a benevolent company.

Eh, I suppose.

Personally, I have a very much love/hate relationship with Amazon and I blame them, not the vendor.

I've had to issue a chargeback because of Amazon's incompetence...which most customer's probably haven't. It is literally the second chargeback I've ever had to do in my life, so it tends to stick with me more than it might for other people.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#283

Post by chippy »

gecko wrote: post #74

Does anyone know what actual mail and calendaring system this thing even uses? What about maps? All the other stuff aside, texting, mail, calendar, and maps cover about 80% of most people's phone use; if those pieces stink, it's going to be a problem, and I see absolutely no mention of where they're getting map data in particular.

uses Nokia Here maps apparently.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#284

Post by cwyers »

alttab wrote: post #267
amputect wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you here; I was really surprised by the price tag, considering that over the course of a 2-year contract you're on the hook for another $200 worth of prime membership to get the most out of the features. I'm already on the edge of cancelling my Prime membership because of the problems with "2-day" shipping turning in to "3-5 day" shipping thanks to UPS Surepost being complete garbage, and I already have…

You aren't a soccer mom who loves Amazon and buys everything on there because it still saves them time (even if its 4 day free shipping). Amazon Mom says there's a huge market for this sort of stuff. These Mom's have phones. Imagine the point in time where anyone with a fire phone firefly's EVERYTHING they buy, before they buy it. Cheaper from Amazon, and free "2" day shipping? Killer feature. Never pay more again. F…

Amazon Prime Music is in no way, shape or form a comparable feature to Spotify. It's 1 million songs versus 20 million.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#285

Post by cnst »

jobu wrote: post #202
epochwolf wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a place I can see these plan changes?

Here's a chart: http://www.att.com/media/att/2014/support/images/MSV_Image_3... With a 10GB plan you end up paying $800 for the phone ($199 up-front, and $25mo extra) under the 2 year commitment plan. Definitely a better deal to just pay $650 up-front.

I think you might have gotten it wrong. From what I recall, the discount for no-contract that they give you is more like 15$, not 25$.

In any case, I'm with Aio Wireless, now Cricket Wireless -- same network, but much better deal, plus unlimited everything.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#286

Post by gamegoblin »

Zelphyr wrote: post #69

Sounds like this phone does a good job of solving Amazon's problem of getting customers to buy more from them. I don't see how it makes my life any easier though. 3D? Ok, that is really cool. 2D hasn't really been a limiting factor for me though. One-handed navigation and autoscrolling? Wow, that just sounds terrible. I'm trying to read and my kid bumps my arm. Now where am I on the page? And how do I quickly get bac…

Here is your tangle-free: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_11?url=search-alias...

Go to town.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#287

Post by bjustin »

amputect wrote: post #190
IBM wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. At a pure product level this isn't competitive with an iPhone. It's exclusive to ATT and apparently only available in the US but still priced to compete with the iPhone. They should have done something with sponsored data or subsidized it heavily for Prime customers, but as it stands this isn't a compelling offering in the market.

I agree with you here; I was really surprised by the price tag, considering that over the course of a 2-year contract you're on the hook for another $200 worth of prime membership to get the most out of the features. I'm already on the edge of cancelling my Prime membership because of the problems with "2-day" shipping turning in to "3-5 day" shipping thanks to UPS Surepost being complete garbage, and I already have…

The phone comes with 1 year of Prime at no additional cost. So it only costs you an extra $100 if you stay on the same phone plan and would pay for Prime anyway.

If you wouldn't pay for Prime anyway, the phone isn't very competitively priced.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#288

Post by miles_matthias »

The gestures, especially auto scroll, seem to lend themselves to phablets especially well.

Market fit is really interesting and confusing (see nostromo's comment at the top for great discussion).

I'm a little tired of the tech giants trying to convert every digital thing I do in my life to their platform. I like my iPhone with my Amazon Prime with my Dropbox thank you. I realize they're trying to include more people on the platform and just want another point of entry, but I hope people still standup for their own choices instead of going all in on one of the big players.

Lastly, what does this continued push on custom android oses mean for Android development? You already have a host of operating system versions and screen sizes to deal with when developing for android, now there are more and more custom OSes with different features. You'll submit to different stores and have different apps? Blagh..

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#289

Post by clinth »

amputect wrote: post #190
IBM wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. At a pure product level this isn't competitive with an iPhone. It's exclusive to ATT and apparently only available in the US but still priced to compete with the iPhone. They should have done something with sponsored data or subsidized it heavily for Prime customers, but as it stands this isn't a compelling offering in the market.

I agree with you here; I was really surprised by the price tag, considering that over the course of a 2-year contract you're on the hook for another $200 worth of prime membership to get the most out of the features. I'm already on the edge of cancelling my Prime membership because of the problems with "2-day" shipping turning in to "3-5 day" shipping thanks to UPS Surepost being complete garbage, and I already have…

Small correction: you get a year of Prime free with purchase of the phone, and if you're already a Prime member, they extend your existing membership by one year. This is way down the page though.

I'm really surprised that they didn't feature this information in the price displays themselves for existing Prime members.

Re: Amazon Fire Phone

#290

Post by brianpgordon »

mwfunk wrote: post #281
brianpgordon wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't get Amazon any market share, it just increases their profits - assuming that they can get anyone to buy it in the first place. And even if the money starts rolling in, that's not going to be able to overcome the legendary inertia of the Google Play and Apple app stores. Google and Apple already have the "dump billions on it until people buy it" angle covered.

Market share is only meaningful if the lack of market share makes a particular product untenable. For example, if someone came out with a new platform that was incompatible with everything else- a lack of apps in the beginning is a huge hurdle to overcome, and the platform may die before achieving a critical mass of third-party support. That is clearly not the case with Amazon. "Just increases their profits" is prett…

Fair enough. Still, Amazon is already making money. Amazon making money isn't news. The question on everyone's mind is whether this will actually make a difference in the smartphone market.
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