Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#41

Post by ScottBurson » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

cliffcrosland wrote: post #12

On the other hand, studies also show that "radical collocation" can increase software development productivity. This study from the University of Michigan claims that productivity was doubled when developers worked together in specially designed "war rooms" that allowed for both spontaneous meetings and moments of solitude: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/220879336_How_does_r... This quote summarizes the resu…

The "nearby hotelling areas" thing is okay when you do everything on a laptop, but as developers we tend to have all our state on a desktop machine driving 2 or 3 large monitors. We can't just pick it up and go into a "focus room", as they're called where I work.

My own opinion is that it should be the other way around. In the open space, library rules apply: brief whispered conversations only. For extended discussions, go into a "focus room".

That, I think, could work.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#42

Post by ScottBurson » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 5:39 PM UTC

hershel wrote: post #34

Recently i've been interested in buying a noise cancelling headphones. There's the new bose quietcomfort 20i, which are claimed at least by some reviewers to almost cancel talking sound. Assuming they work well, since they are controlled using software, it might open the way to a more "programmable" noise environment. For example you could set them to hear only the team members you want at any given time, thus giving…

I haven't tried that model, but in my experience and from what I've heard, noise cancelling headphones don't work that well on voices. They mostly cancel low frequencies, below the vocal range.

In-ear monitors, that seal the ear canal like earplugs, work much better.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#43

Post by mabbo » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 5:43 PM UTC

frisco wrote: post #37

I was really sympathetic to the distractions caused by an open plan office. I saw the statistics that people get sick more often. I knew it would be annoying to have it potentially be really loud (or have everyone need to be quiet to keep it not loud). My company's new office is going to be open plan, though. Why? Because an office costs about $15k to build. We're already spending six figures on construction (ha ha b…

Let's assume my office employs 100 people, at around $100,000 per year each. If a $15k office would make us 10% more efficient, then it would pay for itself in 18 months.

Open plan offices are penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#44

Post by nsxwolf » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 6:06 PM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #28

nsxwolf wrote: post #8

2014 is the year of the war on open plan offices. Some people enjoy working in them, you know. Not everyone is interested in saying "how high" every time some grad student's study says "jump".

Peopleware was published in 1987. This body of research is not something that suddenly sprang up in 2014.

So are people not allowed to prefer open office layouts? They're not allowed to discern what works for them, because there couldn't possibly be any variables that make the results of some study irrelevant to their unique situation?

Edit: It would appear the answer is "no", no one is to be allowed make that decision. HN hates open plans more than they hate sexism.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#45

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #4

Maybe we need to re-brand the "open plan" to something else. "Open" is something many tech businesses want to be, especially internally . So an "open" layout helps people be "open" in other desirable ways, right? Well, not really. It's an unfortunate decision-scrambling word-collision. It deserve a name that's still descriptive, but of a loud, crowded place where it's hard to get work done. "Stadium plan"? "Nursery p…

We just call our largest openspace the Chinese Sweatshop. Even managers use this name.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#46

Post by facepalm » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 6:27 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

facepalm wrote: post #13

I suppose open plan has some advantages, like it is more hip (makes for great "we are a family" pictures), and the "team building" might make people less likely to leave their jobs. Just guessing - in any case there might be effects that offset the lower productivity. Otoh I was floored to read today that Amazon apparently has lots of dogs in their offices because it is supposedly good for the atmosphere, lower stres…

> I hope this is not a case of pseudoscientific superstition There is science behind it, although accommodations should be made for those who are allergic or have phobias. "There is plenty of research to show that this isn’t just another shaggy dog tale. Studies going back to the early 1980s support the idea that dogs—and other pets—have enormous health benefits for people. Pets have been shown to lower blood pressur…

I don't doubt that pets have a positive effect. But some dog running around isn't the same as a pet. It might be beneficial for the dog's owner, but not for me (and presumably not for other people either). It's not my pet, it's somebody elses pet.

Of course it seems possible to hire only dog lovers, who would all benefit from improved mood in the dog office. I just hope that not every company adopts the rule, because some scientist claims it will universally increase mood.

A dog approaching in the street is very stressful, especially if you are in company of a small kid.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#47

Post by frisco » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 6:57 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #43

frisco wrote: post #37

I was really sympathetic to the distractions caused by an open plan office. I saw the statistics that people get sick more often. I knew it would be annoying to have it potentially be really loud (or have everyone need to be quiet to keep it not loud). My company's new office is going to be open plan, though. Why? Because an office costs about $15k to build. We're already spending six figures on construction (ha ha b…

Let's assume my office employs 100 people, at around $100,000 per year each. If a $15k office would make us 10% more efficient, then it would pay for itself in 18 months. Open plan offices are penny-wise and pound-foolish.

That's a $1.5M investment up front. Maybe it will make you 10% more efficient, but I have to look at all of the different things I could spend $1.5M on. Hopefully there's something in there for a growing company with an expected IRR of more than 10% over 18 months.

In parallel, how many months of runway do you have? I'm guessing it's not 18, much less the 36+ you'd want to really see those benefits pay off even if it were the most efficient use of the capital.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#48

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 7:00 PM UTC

frisco wrote: post #47

mabbo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume my office employs 100 people, at around $100,000 per year each. If a $15k office would make us 10% more efficient, then it would pay for itself in 18 months. Open plan offices are penny-wise and pound-foolish.

That's a $1.5M investment up front. Maybe it will make you 10% more efficient, but I have to look at all of the different things I could spend $1.5M on. Hopefully there's something in there for a growing company with an expected IRR of more than 10% over 18 months. In parallel, how many months of runway do you have? I'm guessing it's not 18, much less the 36+ you'd want to really see those benefits pay off even if it…

Yet iF you want to save time then the only critical resource is your employees. 10% is an extremely low estimate of the disruption open-plan offices engender. In some cases they can completely disrupt some employees, resulting in 0 or negative return.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#49

Post by BigChiefSmokem » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 7:06 PM UTC

I prefer open spaces.

I like to talk to my team about all things tech and all things not (we have the World Cup on all day on one of our large HDTVs while we work). I also like to know who around me is available to help if I have any issues with "Blame" code. I love paired programming and reflecting my ideas off others to get a good sense of what the correct course of action should be.

When I feel like I know what to do and just need time and focus to complete something important without interruptions, I telecommute.

In other words, the best way to work is to have the ability to have it both ways.

Re: Science, Superstition, and Open Plan Offices

#50

Post by hershel » Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

ScottBurson wrote: post #42

hershel wrote: post #34

Recently i've been interested in buying a noise cancelling headphones. There's the new bose quietcomfort 20i, which are claimed at least by some reviewers to almost cancel talking sound. Assuming they work well, since they are controlled using software, it might open the way to a more "programmable" noise environment. For example you could set them to hear only the team members you want at any given time, thus giving…

I haven't tried that model, but in my experience and from what I've heard, noise cancelling headphones don't work that well on voices. They mostly cancel low frequencies, below the vocal range. In-ear monitors, that seal the ear canal like earplugs, work much better.

I know. They are supposed to be unique in that regard according to pcmag.