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Re: undefined

#41

Post by dewey »

throwaway283719 wrote: post #12
300 wrote: post #7

Most of them have some "boss" who is collecting all the money, and giving them just a bit of it. So instead of giving them money, it's much better to buy them food or something else what they really need.

That's interesting, if it's true. Do you have a source?

Not the author of the parent comment but it's quite common here in Austria for beggars to arrive in busses, sprawl out in the morning, hit the "begging" hotspots / touristy areas and then drive back in the evening while giving a chunk of their earnings to their "boss".

Couldn't really find great english articles about this phenomenon so I don't know how reliable these sources are, the local media usually calls it "begging mafia" or "organised begging":

- A paper dealing with this topic: http://webs.schule.at/website/Texte_online/Organized_Begging...

- http://www.neurope.eu/article/slovak-clans-control-organised...

- http://www.viennareview.net/news/austria/end-station-for-u-b...

- http://viennatimes.at/news/General_News/2010-09-06/25437/Beg...

Re: undefined

#42

Post by rb2e »

station909 wrote: post #30
rb2e wrote: post #21

Well you can sidestep the issue slightly. Ask what do they need the money for? If they are hungry buy them a meal at a local cafe then buy some dry food (like crackers), canned meat such as spam that can be kept in a tin till needed and UHT Milk (milk in a cartoon that doesn't need to be refrigerated till opened. Don't forget some bottle water, also low alcoholic beer may be a subtle alternative if they don't have ac…

Good idea. What do you think I can do when I'm on a train and there is nothing I can do but to give money? That where I get to hear most of the touchy stories.

Everyone has a story. It might be you another time so be respectful but if required be polite but firm and refuse. If its a train they will move on to the next person/carriage. If they are telling you a story, then take the lead and ask them questions. Such as they want to go home, well tell me about home. Your parents, your brothers or sisters. The cute girl in the coffee shop who you went to school with. Tell me about them. Look for consistency in the story but you have to use your gut.

In my opinion, you are better off buying them the meal and food or the ticket yourself at the next stop. Never give cash.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by chipsy »

I established a formal policy of not doing business with strangers in public areas - and panhandling is definitely a business. It just happens to be one that works by creating and subsequently monetizing guilt. An adept panhandler will combine the skills of a con artist, a mugger and a thief, so that you are first frightened and thrown off balance by their aggression, then guilted by their pitch, and finally robbed by their sleight of hand.

When panhandlers or other street people behave more aggressively I simply run away like a scared animal. They do not have a moral right to touch or yell at me, but neither do I have the right to use violence against them for that.

The good you need to do to solve "the problem" of homelessness and poverty involves gradual systemic change - handing out cash to one person at one time is going to maintain the status quo. You have no way to know whose story is a truthful one when you are so suddenly confronted by it - it is like making a blind investment. Only invest if you force them to commit time to you. If they refuse they are up to no good and you should run away.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by ozh »

dueprocess wrote: post #36

As I commented earlier, I ALWAYS give and I NEVER judge. I do this because I'm a Latter-Day Saint[1] and God explicitly spells out in the Book of Mormon[2] how we should respond in such a situation: Succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to peris…

I'm sorry for your loss (your freewill & freedom I mean)

Re: undefined

#45

Post by throwaway283719 »

professorTuring wrote: post #37
throwaway283719 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard a lot of people say that they do this, but I have never seen someone actually do it, nor have I heard a second-hand report of someone doing it. I'm not saying that you're not telling the truth, but I am saying that most people who say that they give food actually give nothing (neither money nor food), but tell their friends and random message boards that they give food, because it avoids looking miserly…

I don't really care what you think. Also, like most of the people that help, I do that to help people, not to brag about helping.

Like I say, I'm not accusing you personally of anything!

And I agree with you completely - most people that help, do that because they think that helping people is the right thing to do.

I'm saying that there are a whole other (much larger) class of people who actually don't help at all, but say that they do (to their friends, on HN etc) because they don't want to be thought of as miserly.

Just look at the comments on this thread. At the moment, by far the largest number are saying that they don't give money, but that they buy food or other goods instead. If that were true, I would expect to have seen someone give a homeless person food at least once in my life, or offer to take them somewhere they could buy food, or just stop to talk to them. As it is, I've seen zero people give food, maybe a few hundred people give money, and hundreds of thousands do nothing.

Re: undefined

#46

Post by jasoncartwright »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #34
jasoncartwright wrote: post #23

Giving money enforces and condones the behaviour of begging. I'm sure people's intentions are good, but by giving money directly you're keeping them on the streets.

How will not giving money encourage them to get off the streets? It's not like the proportion of beggars who are in it for the money is particularly high...

Give the money to a charity that will be able to aggregate it, and use it better - as they understand the problem more fully.

Single datapoint: there is a beggar near my house who people give money to. He's been there for /years/. Is his problem being solved? I presume not.

Re: undefined

#47

Post by luch »

ilitirit wrote: post #6

I suppose it depends on where you live. In my city (Cape Town) beggars can make up to $400 a week at certain high-traffic spots. People who give them money are enabling them. Also, in my city certain organisations exist to help the homeless and IMO it's better to donate to these groups instead. In many places in South Africa you are encouraged NOT to give money to beggars. http://giveresponsibly.co.za/ http://www.cap…

Yes, I live in Paris and it said beggars can make up to 30€ a day on certain locations. Moreover they have access to bare necessities like food, clothes, free street clinics and sheltering during winter. Some beggars aren't homeless either.

Every cent given to street beggars goes for their comfort, not their survival. I'm not implying that is a bad thing, just don't think you've saved a person by giving them some quids.

Re: undefined

#48

Post by onion2k »

jasoncartwright wrote: post #23

Giving money enforces and condones the behaviour of begging. I'm sure people's intentions are good, but by giving money directly you're keeping them on the streets.

The long term solution (getting someone off the streets) is irrelevant for most homeless people. They're homeless now. What might be done to fix their situation in the future isn't something they spend much time thinking about. Unless you have a way to get someone of the streets right there and then, giving them money is by far the best thing you can do.

Re: undefined

#49

Post by station909 »

thisone wrote: post #14

what you should do is figure out why someone you don't know, to whom you own nothing, is able to make you feel so bad about not giving them anything. Give money to beggars or don't, give money to charity or don't, give money to random people or don't. Just figure out why you feel the way you do, I don't think anyone can do that for you.

Good point. Why? Because I was poor too a long time ago. Neither I or my family begged for money, but worked really hard to get it. I sympathize, I guess. No one knows how it feels to grow in a family with low resources. It goes unnoticed.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by danielweber »

station909 wrote: post #22
samscully wrote: post #19

I give to the top charities on GiveWell [1] instead. As an individual you can't help everyone, at least with GiveWell you can be fairly sure your money is making someone's life better. [1] http://www.givewell.org/

How do you know you can trust them?

The point of GiveWell is that they thoroughly investigate the results of the charity, and recommend places that are highly effective for your marginal dollar.

Maybe they don't succeed in their mission, and they are the first to point out their limitations.

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