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Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

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41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would humbly suggest that static site generators are not nearly as popular as you might think if you only view the CMS market through the eyes of the HN crowd. SSGs are hugely popular among nerds and practically unknown among everybody else. The result is a kind of distortion where, to nerds, it looks like SSGs are about to take over the world -- "all my friends use them!" But step outside that tight network of peo…

Ah, don't forget that HN-types determine the future direction of products, services, and tools. If that weren't true, what are we all doing here?

The market determines the future directions of products, services, and tools. While HN-types deliver them, by-the-numbers, they usually fail.

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Joomla but Wordpress and Drupal are hardly falling out of favor; they're actually both growing quite rapidly. Developing a custom CMS makes sense for exactly one type of company: a publisher whose entire business depends on their CMS. For companies in that situation, developing a custom CMS is a capital investment in their core product. Everyone else will save time, money, and security headaches by…

None of the metrics I've seen outside of Acquia marketing materials suggest Drupal is growing. Developer engagement plateaued a couple years ago if Google keyword searches and module issue queues are anything to go by. The number of purely Drupal dev shops have plummeted over the last few years. Job postings (locally and elsewhere) appear to be limited to well-established large enterprise and .edu, and regional shops…

The number of Drupal core contributors has shot up from the hundreds to the thousands over the past couple of years

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#43
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would it take to make an SSG appeal to a broader set of users? I don't think the SSG, as they largely exist today, will ever gain widespread usage by mainstream users. But one thing that could drive greater adoption would be to develop an aesthetically pleasing web front-end that lets users write content using familiar WYSIWYG tools, but save the content to local files instead of a database. From there, the pr…

There is no doubt that SSGs will "grow up" and appear to gain features like Wordpress. The difference will be that SSGs are born out of loosely coupled tools in a toolchain ecosystem. Over time, I believe the successful SSGs will have a decidedly Unix flavor to them. Take http://www.metalsmith.io/ as an example.

SSGs are fundamentally flawed. The web is moving fast away from being a static page-centric medium to a dynamic content-centric one.

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#44

The CMS is in a renaissance period with Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal and the like falling out of favor. I believe the CMS is bifurcating into two specialized directions. Several online publishers are coming out and describing their new, home-grown custom CMS. The features are rich and provide robust, innovative tools across the long-form content lifecycle: writing, editing, and publication. There is special attention to…

I would humbly suggest that static site generators are not nearly as popular as you might think if you only view the CMS market through the eyes of the HN crowd. SSGs are hugely popular among nerds and practically unknown among everybody else. The result is a kind of distortion where, to nerds, it looks like SSGs are about to take over the world -- "all my friends use them!" But step outside that tight network of peo…

> SSGs are hugely popular among nerds and practically unknown among everybody else.

Depends on your definition of SSG. I'd consider an app such as RapidWeaver[1] to be a SSG. They aren't targeting "HN nerds."

[1] http://realmacsoftware.com/rapidweaver

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming such a tool existed, would writers be ready to use it? Is there much precedent for writing "scalable copy" to the level of detail you describe? Seems like it would be pretty difficult and the necessary magic (e.g. in the example you posted, cutting out the "Well, " would require capitalization of "yes") could lead to unexpected results and awkward flow.

Would writers be ready to use it? Not at first. Well, at least not the older writers who are still resentful that they have to write with a digital audience in mind. But those writers are dropping like flies. Is there much precedent for writing scalable copy? Yes! I used to have to cut wire stories to fit. Let's say 25 newspapers run the same wire story, each with different length requirements. That's 25 editors who…

Interesting idea but I'm skeptical that any writer would ever be able to adopt something so "technical" (for lack of a better word). Writers just don't think like that and I don't think they ever will. It's a wall between creative types and tech types that is here to stay, imho.

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would writers be ready to use it? Not at first. Well, at least not the older writers who are still resentful that they have to write with a digital audience in mind. But those writers are dropping like flies. Is there much precedent for writing scalable copy? Yes! I used to have to cut wire stories to fit. Let's say 25 newspapers run the same wire story, each with different length requirements. That's 25 editors who…

Interesting idea but I'm skeptical that any writer would ever be able to adopt something so "technical" (for lack of a better word). Writers just don't think like that and I don't think they ever will. It's a wall between creative types and tech types that is here to stay, imho.

I'm a writer and I think "like that". I know many other writers that do, as well.

And it's not surprising, because writing itself is a technology in a traditional sense. Further, it's more "tech" oriented (in the more contemporary sense) than you give it credit for.

It's very close to coding: It's structural, admits of procedure, copy reuse, partakes of historical design advancements, adapts to tech around it, etc. Fuzzier, maybe. But try and do it well, sometime. The edges are harder than you might think.

(And, as an exasperated aside: Ugh!! There is no wall between creative types and tech types! No such types exist in the first place. Only weird, sticky prejudices.)

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#47
post #24

The CMS is in a renaissance period with Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal and the like falling out of favor. I believe the CMS is bifurcating into two specialized directions. Several online publishers are coming out and describing their new, home-grown custom CMS. The features are rich and provide robust, innovative tools across the long-form content lifecycle: writing, editing, and publication. There is special attention to…

Heh. You might find my CMS ( http://www.webhook.com ) funny then. It's a CMS based on static-site-generator concepts... it deploys static websites for example and is easy to use and malleable. However it still has a firebase backend and a traditional /cms/ page with all the modern trappings you'd expect. So I kind of went for both :)

Any news regarding hosting this yourself? I remember this being asked a few times, but I'm curious if your stance has changed since.

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#48
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.

Well, yes, but in only the broadest sense possible. For the purposes of an op-ed piece or a feature story , though, you'd need to have much more control. Actually, this comment illustrates that such a system might not be as easy as you'd think. Some natural-language processing/generation would come in handy to ensure the following things: * proper capitalization * subject/verb agreement * proper punctuation * number…

Aren't these the job of a human editor? (or is this the reason why my e-newspapers have so many copy editing errors?)

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a way of representing the underlying data in which writers and editors can designate certain paragraphs or sentences or phrases as more important than others Doesn't HTML do this? is more important than , etc.

Those are for headers. Hence the "h". Not for paragraphs or sentences.

[deleted]

Re: Scoop: A Glimpse Into the NYTimes CMS

#50
post #30

Context: I'm a former copy editor with experience working for digital-only (e.g. Forbes.com) as well as print-driven magazines newspapers. One of the things that's difficult when designing a CMS that works for both digital and print is that there are far fewer space constraints online than in print, and you want to ultimately generate an article that works in both formats. (Oh, and on mobile, and in a condensed versi…

I was once involved in developing a system like the one you describe, and it turns out it's a really hard problem, because for most non-trivial articles you want to do more than just skip a paragraph: you cut an explanation here, which means you need another word there and possibly that sentence doesn't make sense anymore so you'd rewrite that... and as a result, as a copy editor, you very quickly lose track of the flow of a story if there's two or more different variants all merged into one.

You mention elsewhere that "It potentially saves copy editors a lot of work." but I think you'd have to be a pretty darn good copy editor to keep multiple versions of a story in your head at the same time and ensure all of them keep their flow and coherence. Perhaps it really just is faster to read and edit any and all versions of a story separately.

What you're describing could work, but only if people changed the way they wrote to make it easy to cut things out without having to rewrite other things. But then you're back to something like the inverted pyramid.

What we ended up doing instead was to give authors the ability to "fork" stories into different editions that are, from that moment on, edited completely independently from each other, but behind the scenes keep track of which parts of the story are still the same, so you can provide intelligent diffs, notifications and potentially even merges like "In the web edition it talks about a guy named Jon but the print edition refers to John -- which is it?" without changing the experience for writers and editors too much.

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