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The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

harpers.org

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Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#71

Post by demallien »

tremols wrote: post #65
brazzy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be used as a tool to deceive and lead you deep into conspiracy theory delusions as well, however. Records and studies show that vaccinations have saved millions of lives? No, that's just Big Pharma propaganda to make you inject your children with expensive poison! Follow the money! Scientific evidence shows that homeopathy doesn't work? No, again it's Big Pharma, attacking a superior competition! Follow the mo…

Believing in reptilian illuminati or the AH1N1 pandemia, both are delusions... one invented by internet freakos and the other invented by big pharma and mass media.

Yes, because we've never seen massive casualties as the result of a flu virus. Oh, wait...

Worrying about what influenza viruses are doing is not in any way shape or form similar to worrying about reptilian illuminati.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#72

Post by drzaiusapelord »

explorigin wrote: post #68
ap22213 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never 'had' religion - I was raised by atheists. So, I never had a 'void' to fill. So, what does that make of me? I feel like a 'moral' person - do I need something other than common sense, empathy, and civility to be moral?

The trouble is when a serial killer says the same thing.

Serial killers who are almost universally white Christian males?

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#73

Post by gress »

enraged_camel wrote: post #58
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What fills that vacuum? Religion is a cultural construct to address certain issues like morality, cosmology, etc. It didn't fill any void, its just an outward expression of culture. Current culture is to handle these things inwardly and via some level of rational inquiry. We don't need a turn-key replacement. The only turn-key replacement for religion is more religion. Religion as a category and part of human exper…

>>This is like saying, "Now that we don't have phrenology, we need a new phrenology." No, we just accept we can't figure out how people work or what kind of people they are by feeling their skulls. We live with the ambiguity and... But that's the whole point: a lot of people simply cannot live with the ambiguity. For them, ambiguity means uncertainty, and uncertainty means fear and a lack of stability in general. Ins…

Do they really need that certainty, or has that been trained into them from an early age?

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#74

Post by pit »

avn2109 wrote: post #47
pit wrote: post #31

There's a "Download PDF" button. Holy cow, my respect for Harper's, and perception of them as a serious publication, just skyrocketed. Are any other online publishers doing that? It's not even that I'm going to print it out or anything, but clearly it shows that their priority is readership, not ad conversions.

>> "...my respect for Harper's, and perception of them as a serious publication, just skyrocketed." Really? I have always thought of Harper's as first among equals in the respectable, serious-journalism cohort. I think it's the best grown-up publication available in America today.

Oh, I didn't mean that I thought they were lousy before, but now my perception is overwhelmingly positive.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#76

Post by gyardley »

ap22213 wrote: post #64
javajosh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a lot of what's being offered is actually good...meditation...society Indeed. >I don't see too many gen-x'ers and gen-y's dying to get up early to go to church to be sermonized by the ravings of 1st century zealots. I don't see how that's remotely in their interests. Here you hint at a problem: when you take away religion you leave a vacuum. What fills that vacuum? In our society, today, by default it is filled with…

I never 'had' religion - I was raised by atheists. So, I never had a 'void' to fill. So, what does that make of me? I feel like a 'moral' person - do I need something other than common sense, empathy, and civility to be moral?

No, of course not. You're obviously just fine as you are.

That said, your atheist parents may have done a particularly good job teaching you common sense, empathy, and civility, or you may be naturally inclined towards common sense, empathy, and civility in a way that not every person is.

For those individuals who aren't inclined to common sense, empathy, or civility, and for those individuals with parents who aren't so good at teaching common sense, empathy, and civility, religious organizations can play a very useful role. The god-talk isn't the important part, it's belonging to a broader community that specializes in teaching moral lessons. The decline in religious institutions really doesn't affect smart well-off people with good parents, but it's been terrible for the rest of society, because no secular community has replaced it.

As an aside, the void that so many of these cults fill isn't an absence of moral precepts, it's that sense of community and belonging.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#77

Post by arjn »

So here is a question :

What is the difference between a cult and an established religion ?

Is it the size of the following ?

Is it the time of origin, i.e. recent vs long ago ?

Is it the number of followers ?

Or is it some combination of the above, or something else altogether ?

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#78

Post by jeffdavis »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20

This is a long article with a lot of items to discuss, but my take is that its "easy" to "brainwash" people because a lot of what's being offered is actually good, but, of course, used cynically and for social control. The Hare Krishna kid didn't know it before, but he now realizes that meditation helps with his social anxiety. Except now, he's in bed with the Krishna's, instead of finding a personal and secular path…

"I think religiosity and cults rise when secular society fails at something."

I think it's more useful to think of it as a psychology hack that can strike almost anyone. Not any person at any time, but any person at one of their vulnerable moments.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#79

Post by silverbax88 »

gress wrote: post #69
silverbax88 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't need gurus. That is just a mask to the problem. What they need is therapy. Real therapy. But we live in a culture where we think some mystical shaman in Mumbai has the answers we seek, not some medical professional who studies the mind and how it works. Many of the so-called 'swamis' of the world would be considered mentally ill in the Western world. I'm not being hyperbolic. Many of them are not well an…

Who determines what 'real therapy' is?

I can't tell if you're being serious but medically certified psychologists are the most qualified to answer that question. Therapy is a medical science, but every layperson seems to think they have enough knowledge to comment on what it is or whether it's needed.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#80

Post by ap22213 »

explorigin wrote: post #68
ap22213 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never 'had' religion - I was raised by atheists. So, I never had a 'void' to fill. So, what does that make of me? I feel like a 'moral' person - do I need something other than common sense, empathy, and civility to be moral?

The trouble is when a serial killer says the same thing.

I have a hard time believing that a serial killer will be cured by religion.
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