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YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

theguardian.com

41–50 of 118 posts

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#41
post #16

>> "WIN claims that the company has signed lucrative licensing deals with major labels Universal, Warner and Sony, while demanding that independent labels sign up to inferior terms or face having their videos blocked from YouTube's free service." I hope this isn't true but it wouldn't surprise me. Creators of services that allow music to be accessed for free/very cheap always talk about how it's great for independent…

It isn't. The videos aren't being "blocked", youtube simply won't have the license to show them anymore. These "indie labels" are trying to extract higher rates from free streaming by holding out on the paid service. The real issue here is the guardian publishing the labels' PR as is.

The indies just want the same deal as the majors get. Fair and simple.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#42
post #17

This is super weird, I'm under the impression that music generates much higher ad rates than most content on YouTube. Wouldn't eliminating ads be sort of shooting themselves in the foot, even against a subscription fee? Maybe they see the other streaming services replacing them in the near future.

These videos aren't being blocked, it's just that youtube will no longer have the license to show them, because those indie labels are holding for a better deal.

If I visit the URL of one of these videos, will it play?

It sounds like you are just arguing semantics about what "block" means internally at YouTube versus what a person using YouTube considers the word to mean.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#43

So basically they're chopping off the long tail? Seems bizarre to me. Google really is the new MS. Twitter should buy soundcloud and add music video hosting to it. Premium users only obviously.

The long tail might be lucrative but there's more overhead, and mainstream(ish) music provides economies of scale.

Put another way: if they can make a penny per view on Psy's Gangnam Style video that's $20m for hosting and distributing one video. Maybe they can get 2 billion combined downloads from indie videos, but that requires hosting and distributing hundreds of thousands of videos. It makes sense, business-wise, to want more favourable terms from indie labels just because their content doesn't monetize as well, doesn't draw advertisers as well, and isn't viewed as much.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#44
YouTube is about to begin testing the new service – which will charge people to watch and listen to music without ads, and download songs to their mobile devices – within the next few days, initially within Google.

So, Adblock Plus and Youtube to MP3?...

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#45
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a seemingly more evenly sourced article on gizmodo: "Some labels are refusing to sign up because they say they're getting a raw deal from Google. They say that while the major labels have negotiated lucrative contracts, Google is offering indies comparatively bad terms. It's their right to say they don't want to sign up if they don't like the deal Google is offering them. In response, Google is drawing a line in…

"crappy licensing deal" doesn't really indicate an even article. Basically same as everyone else they are siding with the labels and adapting their narrative. Yes, if Youtube can't licence the music the videos will get flagged by ContentID, which means they gets "blocked" because they don't have the license to show them, it's a semantics play and circular logic that the labels are offering and as with most attacks on…

I don't really care about their wording. The proposition that Google has made the choice that labels can either (1) join the premium service or (2) not be on YouTube anymore does not really seem disputed by anyone other than you. Except you may not even dispute it now? If you don't, you may very well not agree with the opinions and commentary people are sharing about the situation, but that's a disagreement about interpretation not facts.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#46

YouTube is about to begin testing the new service – which will charge people to watch and listen to music without ads, and download songs to their mobile devices – within the next few days, initially within Google. So, Adblock Plus and Youtube to MP3?...

Annnnd...now we know why Chrome 35 doesn't even allow you to install 3rd party extensions in Developer Mode anymore, and they all need to be installed from the web store.

They might leave the blocker if it comes from the well known ones like Adblock or Adblock Plus, but they will reject any other extension that is purposefully built to block such ads in the new service.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#47
post #34
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't. The videos aren't being "blocked", youtube simply won't have the license to show them anymore. These "indie labels" are trying to extract higher rates from free streaming by holding out on the paid service. The real issue here is the guardian publishing the labels' PR as is.

From a seemingly more evenly sourced article on gizmodo: "Some labels are refusing to sign up because they say they're getting a raw deal from Google. They say that while the major labels have negotiated lucrative contracts, Google is offering indies comparatively bad terms. It's their right to say they don't want to sign up if they don't like the deal Google is offering them. In response, Google is drawing a line in…

"you can't host videos on YouTube at all" is the phrase that has big flashing neon lights around it for me.

Has YouTube somehow become pre-emptively aware of the copyright of every work uploaded to it?

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#48

Will somebody here please make a video hosting website to replace YouTube.

I've always wanted to try a media content site (obviously based on open standards) where to avoid the whole DMCA mess you'd require all content to be relicensed under a CC license (of your choice).

That means if you don't own licensing rights, which is very obvious if you even include third party material, you can't upload it.

That means personal video is entirely safe, and anything you personally record is always safe, but you never get into the fair use mess that made youtube, vimeo, etc so bad in the first place.

I'd think such a project would work best if you were trying to promote original works, though - and serving video is not really that complex - the infrastructure around it is applicable to almost all media anyway. But that is some serious scope creep, but as someone who consumes most forms of digital media from freelancers and amateur content producers, it has to be incredibly annoying as someone who uses multiple services to have their art on deviantart, their music on soundcloud and bandcamp, their videos on youtube, their blog on tumblr, and their web games on newgrounds or armor games.

One major roadblock in content hosting, as the founder of imgur has came foward about on many occasions, is the raw size of the content database, plus the bandwidth costs. I think popcorntime has soundly demonstrated the capabilities of the torrent protocol to handle real time streaming - the startup time has significant overhead, but given sufficient health in the network can stream effectively. I'd definitely look into distributing any larger videos, audio, games, and photo galleries via torrents since they would all be CC licensed. Of course then you aren't talking about a website anymore since you can't integrate functionality like that in the browser, so it is kind of a tangential idea, but I primarily develop in Qt and think it would be a real realistic cross platform deployable application on every platform if wanted to go the app route. I could see there still being a website.

And then you get into monetization, which was youtubes problem. I think patreon and kickstarter are soundly proving that patronage is a perfectly viable business model. I find it baffling that the only service I know that does patronage or subscriptions is Twitch, but even that is just a very cut and dry $5 a month.

I guess in part that is because all the payment mechanisms out there are antiquated pains in the ass. And for a startup to try to integrate payments like that would be a huge legal mess. I'd rather just give users blockchain.io wallets and let them put money in on their own, like bitcointip or dogecointip do on reddit - that model has proven hugely successful. And as cryptocurrencies enter the mainstream, I think that kind of business would be prime to explode.

Instead of fixed payments, it would be integrated in all the content pages with every feasible way to pay - buying swag, patreon style per content gifts, kickstarter esque projects where you propose a project and get it funded preemptively, monthly subscriptions like Twitch, and one time quick donations. I would imagine users might want to still monetize via adds, but I would rather such a service be funded through, say, 5% of all patronage transactions than through ad networks, because that makes you beholden to their demands for how to run your service. It gives you immediate monetization metrics so as long as you can get some audience and if people actually funded the artists it would probably be profitable quickly.

But hey, that is just me. All my colleagues and mailing lists think I'm crazy. I keep throwing it around and if I ever met a few folks interested in trying it I'd definitely be up for giving it a major go - I think its the inevitable "maximal" solution to intellectual content.

Wow, that was quite the rant. Sorry HN.

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#49
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a seemingly more evenly sourced article on gizmodo: "Some labels are refusing to sign up because they say they're getting a raw deal from Google. They say that while the major labels have negotiated lucrative contracts, Google is offering indies comparatively bad terms. It's their right to say they don't want to sign up if they don't like the deal Google is offering them. In response, Google is drawing a line in…

"crappy licensing deal" doesn't really indicate an even article. Basically same as everyone else they are siding with the labels and adapting their narrative. Yes, if Youtube can't licence the music the videos will get flagged by ContentID, which means they gets "blocked" because they don't have the license to show them, it's a semantics play and circular logic that the labels are offering and as with most attacks on…

"The BBC understands that even if blocks do go ahead, content from artists signed to independent labels will remain available on YouTube via channels such as Vevo."

This completely changes the issue altogether.

How did the Guardian misreport this so badly?

Re: YouTube to block indie labels who don't sign up to new music service

#50
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These videos aren't being blocked, it's just that youtube will no longer have the license to show them, because those indie labels are holding for a better deal.

If I visit the URL of one of these videos, will it play? It sounds like you are just arguing semantics about what "block" means internally at YouTube versus what a person using YouTube considers the word to mean.

The difference is Youtube is being forced to not show it by the people claiming they are blocking it. It would be illegal if they did show it.
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