Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

harpers.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 143 posts

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#21

Post by brazzy »

silverbax88 wrote: post #17
andyidsinga wrote: post #14

this: “Forget about their philosophy,” he said. “Let’s focus instead on who is really in power.”

Although not precisely related, I always say 'follow the money' to find out why you see certain political ads, or certain magazine articles, or anything like to figure out who is really in power. Find out who benefits from people believing certain things and it will be like magically being able to understand a language you don't currently speak.

It can be used as a tool to deceive and lead you deep into conspiracy theory delusions as well, however.

Records and studies show that vaccinations have saved millions of lives? No, that's just Big Pharma propaganda to make you inject your children with expensive poison! Follow the money!

Scientific evidence shows that homeopathy doesn't work? No, again it's Big Pharma, attacking a superior competition! Follow the money!

Massive consensus among the scientific community that climate change exists, is a serious problem, and caused by burning fossil fuels? No, those scientists are just drumming up publicity to get grant money! Follow the money!

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#22

Post by brazzy »

pfortuny wrote: post #16
oftenwrong wrote: post #10

"Get it wrong, and we call it a cult. Get it right, in the right time and the right place, and maybe, for the next few millennia, people won't have to go to work on your birthday." - Dr. Robert Sapolsky http://youtu.be/4WwAQqWUkpI

Yeah, that is a very resounding quote but it does not take into account that there have been few incentives to remain a Cristian and people have, despite not being "pressed". Unless you think millions of people can be brainwashed by priests and pastors. And it is remarkable how "Science" was born in those countries where they do not work on that date.

> it does not take into account that there have been few incentives to remain a Cristian and people have, despite not being "pressed".

Yeah, cult followers, once brainwashed are typically very resistant. Besides social pressure to be Christian is often massive, especially the USA.

> Unless you think millions of people can be brainwashed by priests and pastors.

You seriously believe they can't? Hey, wanna buy a bridge?

> And it is remarkable how "Science" was born in those countries where they do not work on that date.

Yeah, it was born despite religion, when people stopped believing everything the priests and pastors told them and started thinking for themselves.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#23

Post by silverbax88 »

brazzy wrote: post #21
silverbax88 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although not precisely related, I always say 'follow the money' to find out why you see certain political ads, or certain magazine articles, or anything like to figure out who is really in power. Find out who benefits from people believing certain things and it will be like magically being able to understand a language you don't currently speak.

It can be used as a tool to deceive and lead you deep into conspiracy theory delusions as well, however. Records and studies show that vaccinations have saved millions of lives? No, that's just Big Pharma propaganda to make you inject your children with expensive poison! Follow the money! Scientific evidence shows that homeopathy doesn't work? No, again it's Big Pharma, attacking a superior competition! Follow the mo…

This is also true, you are correct. But when you see news stories about something, say, 'Turns out corn syrup is good for you!' showing up on the evening news, and on Access Hollywood, and on the Yahoo! front page, and on ESPN, and on Jeopardy! questions all on the same day, there's something up.

I mean, this isn't some revelation I'm offering, it's just interesting as to why ESPN and Access Hollywood, who cover completely different genres, would both suddenly have a corn syrup story on their radar.

As for Big Pharma, I did used to wonder why prescription drugs were advertised on television...I mean, patients don't pick and choose their brands, their doctors do, right?

Until it hit me that often pharmaceutical companies find/discover drugs that don't automatically have a market. But if they advertise that new 'sleep disorder/re-order' drug, then people will think, 'Hey, maybe I need that' and start asking their doctor.

My doctor told me that people walk in all the time and ask if they should be taking some new drug they just heard of, and his reaction is 'why? you never had a problem with what this drug is describing before.' There are legitimate cases, but tv ads driving people to buy meds they might not even need is a real thing.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#24

Post by TeMPOraL »

Fuxy wrote: post #19
kordless wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human brain can be very susceptible to hacking, especially if its trust channels are open.

I would never grant such lever of trust to anyone. Hell i don't trust myself so there's no way in hell I'll grant someone else that level of trust.

Doesn't matter; there are well known and effective ways of hacking the trust channels as well.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#25

Post by runjake »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8
Roritharr wrote: post #7

"The FBI hired him because he claimed to be a Vietnam veteran, but Sullivan discovered that this was a lie — during the war Nivette had been a student at UCLA." This baffles me and lets me question the sincerity of the article. Can this possibly be the case?

UCLA as an ROTC student? 'Veteran' implies in the popular mind 'served in theatre' but couldn't it also mean 'was a soldier'?

A "veteran" is a person who served in the military. A "combat veteran" is a person who served in combat while in the military.

In the US Army's case, a combat veteran would have a Combat Infantryman Badge. In the Marines, it would be a Combat Action Ribbon.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#26

Post by zheshishei »

silverbax88 wrote: post #23
brazzy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be used as a tool to deceive and lead you deep into conspiracy theory delusions as well, however. Records and studies show that vaccinations have saved millions of lives? No, that's just Big Pharma propaganda to make you inject your children with expensive poison! Follow the money! Scientific evidence shows that homeopathy doesn't work? No, again it's Big Pharma, attacking a superior competition! Follow the mo…

This is also true, you are correct. But when you see news stories about something, say, 'Turns out corn syrup is good for you!' showing up on the evening news, and on Access Hollywood, and on the Yahoo! front page, and on ESPN, and on Jeopardy! questions all on the same day, there's something up. I mean, this isn't some revelation I'm offering, it's just interesting as to why ESPN and Access Hollywood, who cover comp…

>I mean, patients don't pick and choose their brands, their doctors do, right?

Oftentimes, there's a choice between brand-name and generics, as well as different medications treating the same illness/disorder/symptom. In these cases, advertising would certainly have an effect. Or, maybe the ads serve as the push to convince people to take the step from OTC meds to prescription meds.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#27

Post by prestadige »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20

This is a long article with a lot of items to discuss, but my take is that its "easy" to "brainwash" people because a lot of what's being offered is actually good, but, of course, used cynically and for social control. The Hare Krishna kid didn't know it before, but he now realizes that meditation helps with his social anxiety. Except now, he's in bed with the Krishna's, instead of finding a personal and secular path…

Worth remembering though that there are many cultish aspects to the mainstream, e.g. political movements fight tooth and nail to influence what young children are taught at school.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#28

Post by Jtsummers »

Roritharr wrote: post #7

"The FBI hired him because he claimed to be a Vietnam veteran, but Sullivan discovered that this was a lie — during the war Nivette had been a student at UCLA." This baffles me and lets me question the sincerity of the article. Can this possibly be the case?

They hired him to be a therapist for other Vietnam vets. They likely never did a (significant) background check because they weren't hiring him for anything crucial (security wise). They were hiring him to help people who had a similar experience to his.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#29

Post by at-fates-hands »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20

This is a long article with a lot of items to discuss, but my take is that its "easy" to "brainwash" people because a lot of what's being offered is actually good, but, of course, used cynically and for social control. The Hare Krishna kid didn't know it before, but he now realizes that meditation helps with his social anxiety. Except now, he's in bed with the Krishna's, instead of finding a personal and secular path…

>>> You can engage in a personal spirituality without feeling guilted to show up for social functions (that only seem to empower the leaders of congregations).

This.

So many people equate spirituality with religion. The deepest things I've learned about spirituality was when I was studying Native American religions and Shamanism. I was brought up Catholic, but it wasn't until I realized my spirituality didn't have to be connected to my religious beliefs that I really started to see the world in a whole new way.

It just opened up so many new paths of exploration and understanding. It truly was an "ah-ha!" moment.

Re: The Man Who Saves You from Yourself (2013)

#30

Post by hkarthik »

I encourage anyone interested in cults to watch the documentary film "Kumare" which is available on Netflix and Itunes [1].

It's the story of a film maker of Indian origin who creates a cult persona and gains followers in the Phoenix area. It's really fascinating to see what kinds of people fall for it and how they are increasingly more drawn to him.

[1] http://www.kumaremovie.com/

Post reply on HN