The biggest question I have is does Apple do user testing? Do they trust their small group of designers more than a small sample of the population? This my biggest question for Apple's design team.
They do user testing.
Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
11–20 of 36 posts
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure you can make your trivial point about the intricacies of web design without having to piggyback on Jonathan Ive's interview. For the record, a lot of the UI prototyping at Apple is done in Photoshop. It's also done on paper napkins, in Keynote, in Illustrator, in Xcode and with whatever works. Good designers don't judge you based on what tools you use, and they're not picky about what tools they use. They'd…
It's much harder to do it in photoshop for things like responsive design. Responsive is dynamic and fluid and it's very difficult to capture that in a few static comps. I like this point about web design is very relevant to Ive's point. Apple isn't perfect, and the fact that Apple does web design a certain way doesn't mean other ways aren't clearly better and closer to the values Ive is discussing. Trying to use appl…
>It's much harder to do it in photoshop for things like responsive design.
Then again responsive in the web is a co-out and a fad -- instead of creating the best experience for each screen size, you give them some sliding or expanding divs and some dissapearing elements from the "full-on" design and call it a day.
I've never seen a responsive page I like on a mobile device. I'd take the full page, in which I can pan and zoom, anytime.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#13Seriously, Apple PR via third-party technique? This is just a derivative of the previous NYT fluff piece which might as well be written by Apple.
Actually, the previous NYT piece was a hit-piece on Tim Cook, full of BS and snark.
Also "PR via third party"?
It's an interview. Did you really expect him to badmouth Apple in it?
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure you can make your trivial point about the intricacies of web design without having to piggyback on Jonathan Ive's interview. For the record, a lot of the UI prototyping at Apple is done in Photoshop. It's also done on paper napkins, in Keynote, in Illustrator, in Xcode and with whatever works. Good designers don't judge you based on what tools you use, and they're not picky about what tools they use. They'd…
It's much harder to do it in photoshop for things like responsive design. Responsive is dynamic and fluid and it's very difficult to capture that in a few static comps. I like this point about web design is very relevant to Ive's point. Apple isn't perfect, and the fact that Apple does web design a certain way doesn't mean other ways aren't clearly better and closer to the values Ive is discussing. Trying to use appl…
I'd draw a parallel to storyboarding for animation here [1]. Most storyboarding artists get their start as animators themselves, so they know the "form and the material and process," so to speak. But when they do storyboarding work, they need to work in an agile and rapid fashion, to consider a user's flow through the "application" at such a high level that they would be hindered by trying to draw every single detail. Should they know innately what is and is not feasible to animate? Absolutely! But this does not mean that they should use the same tools and techniques as animators to perform their work.
Responsive may be difficult to capture in static comps, but when these comps can be made much more quickly, attention can be given to user experience overall, not just isolated fragments of user interface. And it's difficult to deny Apple's success at driving conversions and purchases.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure you can make your trivial point about the intricacies of web design without having to piggyback on Jonathan Ive's interview. For the record, a lot of the UI prototyping at Apple is done in Photoshop. It's also done on paper napkins, in Keynote, in Illustrator, in Xcode and with whatever works. Good designers don't judge you based on what tools you use, and they're not picky about what tools they use. They'd…
It's much harder to do it in photoshop for things like responsive design. Responsive is dynamic and fluid and it's very difficult to capture that in a few static comps. I like this point about web design is very relevant to Ive's point. Apple isn't perfect, and the fact that Apple does web design a certain way doesn't mean other ways aren't clearly better and closer to the values Ive is discussing. Trying to use appl…
I don't know. The top two most frustrating things I encounter on modern web sites are: "infinite" scrolling effects & badly done responsive designs.
While adaptive UI can be done right (and yes, that's the correct name for it, "responsive" typically refers to reaction lag, not screen size), and is definitely a nice tool in the designer's toolbox, it's very telling that various "responsive evangelists" keep popping out of everywhere talking about the virtues of "responsive" where no one asked them. Say like the poster I was replying to here.
This behavior is typical for something at peak hype. They're just so excited about it, they can't comprehend why everyone isn't getting a boner about "responsive" so they have to talk about it non-stop to clue us in on the awesomeness we're allegedly missing. It's like Ruby on Rails all over again.
Which is to say the "responsive" movement right now is 80% bullshit and 20% useful technique (when used in moderation). And I have examples to support that.
Part of "responsive" is the horrible practice of rolling menus into obscure hamburger buttons, outright hiding panels with useful content and functionality, or presenting bizarre interaction patterns that some harebrained designer thought are more smartphone-ey.
This is not helping your users, it's pissing them off and making them spend a lot of time hunting for the "desktop version" link on your site.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#16The biggest question I have is does Apple do user testing? Do they trust their small group of designers more than a small sample of the population? This my biggest question for Apple's design team.
They do user testing.
I guess my question is if there's a disagreement between user testing results and the product development team's own choices, who wins?
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do user testing.
I guess my question is if there's a disagreement between user testing results and the product development team's own choices, who wins?
Part of being an intelligent person is the ability to make the best call based on all available information.
There's no general rule.
I'll just say that fast iteration is key. You iterate quickly and show users prototypes, and incorporate their feedback (or not), depending on the case.
You can see the "Fake it till you make it" WWDC session on Apple's site, it speaks exactly about how Apple does prototyping and user testing.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#18> This is part of Steve’s legacy. Deep in the culture of Apple is this sense and understanding of design, developing and making. Form and the material and process – they are beautifully intertwined – completely connected. This is also true of modern web design. It's easy to work out which designers embody it: * old-school designer - is still slinging over PSDs with little concern or consideration around multiple scre…
I'm sure you can make your trivial point about the intricacies of web design without having to piggyback on Jonathan Ive's interview. For the record, a lot of the UI prototyping at Apple is done in Photoshop. It's also done on paper napkins, in Keynote, in Illustrator, in Xcode and with whatever works. Good designers don't judge you based on what tools you use, and they're not picky about what tools they use. They'd…
Judging by your hostility and focus I think my point (which I don't think is trivial to those working with the web) wasn't clearly communicated.
The best of modern web designers embody that philosophical approach in regards to the 'building / making' element of how a final web design lives. This is a fuller consideration of how the design works, and can only be achieved by working with the 'materials', just as Ive mentions is essential at Apple for product design.
I never said design can't or shouldn't use napkins, keynote, Photoshop, Illustrator or whatever a designer chooses, or pass any commentary on how designers at Apple internally prototype UIs.
I did imply though that a web designer that stops at the PSD mockup stage doesn't embody the design approach Ive is discussing in the article. Without working directly with the materials (HTML / CSS) you are deciding not to entirely consider all elements of how the design lives:
* are webfonts available for this typeface?
* does CSS provide those visual effects, and if not, what fallback designs should I consider?
* can the design work across all target devices / browsers?
* will the page weight be too large to support this particular design approach. Can I simplify to avoid this?
Mocking up a variety of screens in Photoshop does not cut it at the best end of the scale as a web designer.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#19The biggest question I have is does Apple do user testing? Do they trust their small group of designers more than a small sample of the population? This my biggest question for Apple's design team.
They do user testing.
Better to call it "usability testing" because you're testing the system NOT the user.
Re: Jonathan Ive on Apple's Design Process and Product Philosophy
#20Ive is the real deal. You can't fake this shit.