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No Money, No Time

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

31–40 of 98 posts

Re: No Money, No Time

#31
I just wish that articles like this focused more on how to solve it. It's nice that it acknowledges the problem. But that is not enough. The end of the piece gives a small snippet of examples of what works.

How do we start promoting things that do work? That really work? I think that does not get done in part because many people really do not want "the poor" to solve their problems. I do not understand why that is but there seems to be a hostile attitude towards poor people, as if being poor is evidence of lack of good morals or something and thus you deserve to suffer.

But this doesn't just hurt people who are currently poor. It means anyone who falls down gets kicked while they are down so it becomes unlikely they can get back up. This is not a good paradigm for society. It hurts everyone.

Re: No Money, No Time

#32
Outside of the SV bubble, it's extraordinarily difficult to fail without seeing your credit take a serious hit. And boy howdy is getting back on your feet hard when you (a) can't get an apartment, and (b) find yourself getting screened out of otherwise available jobs. Forget getting money on loan, this is just getting access to the basics of economical survival - work to do and a place to sleep.

The fact that we punish economic failure by making economic success even harder to achieve is evidence of the deep insanity within American culture. Sink or swim is a misnomer. Swim or be drowned is closer to the mark.

So it's great that we're making technical progress on every front imaginable. But how many of these advances see their promise still born in a culture that pays more attention to recycling its trash than the people it discards on its streets?

This winner-take-all/losers-get-ruin problem goes way beyond the business cycle. As Reuters noted a couple of years ago, entrepreneurship has been suffering a decades-long retreat. Having peaked in 1987, it's declined precipitously ever since.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/02/us-usa-economy-bus...

In just about every way imaginable, SV is the exception not the rule. For those who are young enough, smart enough, skilled enough, male enough, credentialed enough, connected enough, unencumbered enough, and possibly delusional enough it's great. But strike any one of those factors from the list, and watch the curve get steep. Start crossing off two or more and the odds on the lottery start looking good.

Those are the odds that the rest of America sees. So it's no wonder they're backing further and further away from risk, regardless of the long-terms costs the country. Until this country has a social contract that's worth a damn, people are going to be very adverse to even the slightest setback. And for good reason.

After all, there's a big difference between the kind of failure that can be chalked up "a valuable learning experience" and failure so catastrophically crushingly severe you never, ever, get back on your feet. There's a lot of that in America. It's where the Fear comes from. That's what drives most people. Not dreams of being one of the great or the good. Those are luxuries for the fortunate few. Most people just live in constant dread of being thrown in the street.

Re: No Money, No Time

#33
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true. Buying in bulk is a minor savings that offsets the cost if a big car or big house or whatever. The core issue is that life has transaction costs on that the wealthier folks don't need to worry about, but a poor person faces catastrophic collapse by going over budget with no way to borrow against the future.

Could you give a few examples of these transaction costs?

I'm not judk, but a few obvious examples:

- Medical bills

- Rent hikes

- Being between jobs

- Repairing things that break (e.g. "My car needs $300 in maintenance" is a big deal when you were just barely going to break even on the month and have no savings)

- Random expenses for kids' school

None of these things are necessarily all that pricy, but when your minimal cost of living is equal to or only slightly less than you make, you have a problem. The worst part is that it accumulates. As these non-negotiable costs arise, you end up making compromises (e.g. taking out credit you're not sure you can repay soon), and those compromises make it harder to handle unexpected costs in the future (e.g. because you're still paying off interest on the last one).

The thing about being rich or poor isn't about how much money you have, per se. It's about how much money you have that you don't really need right now. Quality of life is pretty crap up to a certain point, then it rises quickly once you get past the point of treading water, then it tapers off somewhat later because at that point it's all basically "I do not have to worry about basic needs."

Re: No Money, No Time

#34
post #28

I'm glad to see a few studies bearing out the sort of things I perceived growing up. 'To him, the obvious conclusion is to radically change our thinking. “Just like you wouldn’t charge them $1,000 to fill out a form, you shouldn’t charge them $1,000 in cognitive complexity,” he says. One study found that if you offer help with filling out the Fafsa form, pickup goes up significantly.' I believe this is exactly the ri…

I think that ignores the fact that the forms and such are there in the first place precisely to contain the tide of applicants. What do you think happens when organizations are under budget constraints and have to find creative ways to cut [edit: typo] costs?

>'I think that ignores the fact that the forms and such are there in the first place precisely to contain the tide of applicants.'

This thought did cross my mind, but I've done lots of work in the public sector - local, federal, education and health.

As a rule, these agencies just aren't that clever, not even close.

In my experience, bad forms and the like are generally a matter of "That's how we've always done it."

That's not to say the concern isn't real. Surely it wouldn't serve to simplify an intake form without altering other parts of the process. To fail to do that would just be moving the bottleneck.

Ideally, sticking with the mountain analogy, you'd end up with a steady stream of healthy, willing and ultimately productive hands coming into the valley via a long, winding, but relatively safe pass.

Re: No Money, No Time

#35
post #11

The thing that frustrates me the most about this situation is the waste of human capital this represents for society. Now, I'm a firm believer that society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals - the intelligent, creative, charismatic, and hardworking few change the game for everyone else. Now, what happens when those rare talents are born into the cycle of poverty? What lessons do the…

Plenty of people born into well-off families squander their time, life and fall victim to the same ails as the lower classes.

Most people will "squander" their time in the sense that they'll never accomplish anything that contributes meaningfully to society. That's totally okay. Like beat said, society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals.

What's not okay is when members of this small minority, who have the potential to do great things, instead remain stuck in poverty.

Re: No Money, No Time

#36

I'm glad to see a few studies bearing out the sort of things I perceived growing up. 'To him, the obvious conclusion is to radically change our thinking. “Just like you wouldn’t charge them $1,000 to fill out a form, you shouldn’t charge them $1,000 in cognitive complexity,” he says. One study found that if you offer help with filling out the Fafsa form, pickup goes up significantly.' I believe this is exactly the ri…

As mostly an outside observer in both countries (fortunately), this is one of the big differences I see between the American and Danish welfare systems. The Danish one has a reputation for being much more generous, which is true to some extent, but is not as true in terms of throughput as it is in terms of latency. The Danish system does a lot of short-term "business": people get onto the system in a matter of days,…

>'Whereas the American one seems incapable of delivering anything with less than a 6-month waiting list..'

My family was on a wait list for housing assistance from the time I was a child until I dropped out of school and started working, making us ineligible. The list is currently closed and was last open over half a decade ago, for less than two weeks - like something out of a fantasy novel.

>...with an extremely bureaucratic and unfriendly process almost always serving as the gatekeeper.'

Well, there's a popular notion in the US that the process should be as difficult and unfriendly as possible - that people seeking public assistance are not just lazy, but living well. The 'welfare queen' [1] still haunts the system 40 years later.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

Re: No Money, No Time

#37
We are hackers, and for those of us with whom this article resonates, we can connect those with time but little money (e.g. teenagers looking for charities to contribute to) with the poor through technology. The teens could help with chores, maintenance, errands, filling out forms. Taking some of the time-pressure off might help them to get out of the cycle.

I'm willing to build it if you are. Contact me.

Re: No Money, No Time

#38
post #24
post #11

The thing that frustrates me the most about this situation is the waste of human capital this represents for society. Now, I'm a firm believer that society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals - the intelligent, creative, charismatic, and hardworking few change the game for everyone else. Now, what happens when those rare talents are born into the cycle of poverty? What lessons do the…

The fact that people like you can escape is very encouraging: it means we still have class mobility -- if you've got the skills and work ethic, you can be born into the lower class and quickly rise above that.

I guess the fact that some people have successfully escaped from prison means that prisoners are really free, right?

Your reasoning is lousy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Re: No Money, No Time

#39
post #24
post #11

The thing that frustrates me the most about this situation is the waste of human capital this represents for society. Now, I'm a firm believer that society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals - the intelligent, creative, charismatic, and hardworking few change the game for everyone else. Now, what happens when those rare talents are born into the cycle of poverty? What lessons do the…

The fact that people like you can escape is very encouraging: it means we still have class mobility -- if you've got the skills and work ethic, you can be born into the lower class and quickly rise above that.

No, not quickly, on the contrary, there's an inverse relationship:

"...the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility ..."

"...Studies have also found "a clear negative relationship" between income inequality and intergenerational mobility.[27] Countries with low levels of inequality such as Denmark, Norway and Finland had some of the greatest mobility, while the two countries with the high level of inequality -- Chile and Brazil—had some of the lowest mobility. A 2012 graph plotting the relationship between inequality and mobility in the United States and twelve other developed countries has been dubbed "The Great Gatsby Curve"[27][28][29] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#Country_compari...

PEW report: http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/12/selling-out-over-long-term-...

U. Bekerley.edu / NYTimes feature: http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/features/20130726_upward_mobili...

Re: No Money, No Time

#40
post #11

The thing that frustrates me the most about this situation is the waste of human capital this represents for society. Now, I'm a firm believer that society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals - the intelligent, creative, charismatic, and hardworking few change the game for everyone else. Now, what happens when those rare talents are born into the cycle of poverty? What lessons do the…

> "Now, I'm a firm believer that society is advanced mostly by a small minority of highly talented individuals - the intelligent, creative, charismatic, and hardworking few change the game for everyone else."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory

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