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Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

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Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#101

Post by kyoji »

Theres so much vitriol toward Microsoft in this thread regarding them "using" Krahulik as a PR pawn in their nefarious marketing schemes. He has written extensively about his experience using the Surface as a tool for professional illustration work (and for recreation) in the past; his thoughts on the Surface Pro 3 are not his first rodeo.

As someone who has been looking to buy a Surface for illustration work, it's so encouraging to see Microsoft even engaging with Krahulik, since it indicates to me that 'Artist' is a group of people they are actively pursuing, and willing to cater their device toward. He is an accomplished artist, and was a good pick to get feedback on this particular use of the device. It is also great PR and goodwill for Microsoft, but Krahulik's concerns seemed very genuine, and the fixes to them will benefit everyone like me who are looking to use their Surface for the same purpose.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#102

Post by neltnerb »

virtue3 wrote: post #97
stcredzero wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it not the GPU that is the most critical when talking about the FPS and refresh rate for things like pen input? GPUs are typically about reducing latency for a large amount of parallel processing. Things like stylus latency are more about reducing the latency for a very tiny amount of serially processed data, where the latency requirements are quite a bit more strenuous. (A kerjillion triangles, versus under 4…

The way game input works compared to OS input is very _very_ different. Games go through a more direct mode of user input (directX) whereas the OS has to take into account that where your clicking can do a million different things (basically games take -almost- exclusive use of your mouse/keyboard). This becomes even more problematic when it's in a drawing application and they're now running math over your input to f…

Thank you, this makes it much clearer to me. =)

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#103

Post by footpath »

imaginenore wrote: post #10

Microsoft demoed 1ms touchscreen lag in 2012. Most modern touchscreens still have 100ms lag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

The creators of the drawing app "Colors!" for 3DS and iOS also tested their app's latency across a wide range of devices, and they achieved a 9ms latency in 2004's Nintendo DS:

http://www.collectingsmiles.com/news/measuring-latency-in-co...

  Nintendo 3DS – 23 ms
  PlayStation Vita – 49 ms
  Surface Pro – 100 ms
  iPhone 5 – 81 ms
  Galaxy Note – 71 ms
  Galaxy S3 – 104 ms & Nexus 10 – 99 ms
  Galaxy Note 2 – 132 ms
  Wii U GamePad – 53 ms
  Nintendo DS – 9 ms

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#104

Post by [deleted] »

i_am_ralpht wrote: post #81

Interesting that the Surface Pro 2 did so much better in terms of "feel" and "lag". I wonder if the switch to the nTrig panel is behind the regression (I have an old HP TX2 with an nTrig panel; it was always terrible, but maybe they've improved since then...).

[deleted]

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#105

Post by nightpool »

rasz_pl wrote: post #58
sergiotapia wrote: post #2

>After I was done they told me they were going to take all the notes they had gathered and go to work on fixing the issues I had shown them. Later >To see them come back to me with fixes for my problems was really amazing. They are putting time and effort into making sure the Surface Pro 3 does what artists want it to do. Well played to the MS Surface team, I hope these fixes make it to production and stay there on t…

More like well player PR team, they failed to fix every single issue. They couldnt even let him have the home button fix, something that sounds like a simple script I could write in AutoHotkey in two minutes tops. Surface team looks like a committee full of control freaks. cant give users control over home button, cant give users control over pressure curves (they brought two HARDWIRED tablets instead of writing conf…

Did you read the article? They're planning on distributing a pressure curve configuration tool.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#106

Post by saidajigumi »

Aissen wrote: post #66

> I could see some of them shaking their heads and looking at each other. They were very obviously bothered that they had not seen this before. To me this looks like engineers that had foreseen the problem but were promptly ignored by UX people. Or maybe the other way around.

IMO, this is a great example of why show me don't tell me is vital in product creation. Here, the folks empowered to make the change saw the problem with their own eyes. They may indeed have heard or speculated about this issue previously. But there's a fundamental difference between someone saying something, filtered through language, organizational priorities, etc. and making that realization on your own.

Related, this is a part of why good data viz is so powerful: it allows others to quickly and independently reach the same associations and conclusions. A real-world example: a data viz of game beta test user data shows player deaths in an area with no enemies. Curious. Linking over to video from an affected player just before the death reveals a level design error: a tunnel wall wasn't made solid. This allowed players to "fall out" of the level, causing the game to kill them. The development team relayed that before they had these tools, there would often be a back-and-forth with the level designers ("no, that can't be right!"). But now they'd just call them over, show them, and the level designer would get a bit pale and run back to their desk ("brb, gotta fix that NOW!").

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#107

Post by steele »

omikun2 wrote: post #47
TwistedWeasel wrote: post #17

It's admirable that MS is responding to criticism of their device and working for a solution. However, all the issues he experienced seem like they would be quite obvious to anyone testing the device usage for any kind of drawing application (which, for a device with a stylus seems like a common enough use case to be testing), perhaps Microsoft needs to spend more time and effort on their QA process for the next roun…

I want to applaud MS but this whole thing stinks of a PR move. Wacom has always had a customizable pressure curve in their software. This should be a bedrock standard but instead this catch-up is spun as MS' dedication to artists. To think they are just getting around to doing this (not even a user adjustable slider scale but just a few presets) speaks volume of how much they actually care about artists -- it wasn't…

Would you have preferred they did not address the concerns of Krahulik?

SP2 is likely the best portable computer for digital illustrators. You can still have an SP2, but if you're like me, you're bummed out that SP3 means that the accessory ecosystem is stuck as-is for the SP2.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#108

Post by vacri »

GodEater wrote: post #20

It's great to read that Gabe has had such a positive experience with a Microsoft product team - but it seems pretty obvious to me that it's because he's a somebody. His posts on penny-arcade reach an enormous audience, and so of course they're going to do their damn best to make sure he sings the product's praises. My experience is very different. I've been working for an enormous organisation for the last 4 years, a…

While I assume you've probably done this, you can try going up the chain, telling the higher-level managers just what a shitty experience you've had, and that you're considering looking elsewhere to fill (some of) your needs as a result. You don't have to say you're considering moving everything, just that you're going to start experimenting with other providers where appropriate, and start breaking the MS stranglehold on your business.

Make someone important start genuinely worrying about your account. Get them to assign a permanent engineering contact point, since it's clear your account manager isn't doing it for you. If you're not a manager-level staffer, get managerial support in doing this, so you have their backing and they don't undermine you later (even accidentally). And while you don't have a blog of your own, if you get stonewalled again, you could reach out to a tech blog with a decent amount of penetration and have an interview with them - either about the shitty experience, or the thought of moving vendors and implying that MS is no longer the only game in town for your -foo-. It doesn't have to be perfectly true, it just has to generate visible bad press - it's an underhanded tactic, but if you're consistently being treated poorly, I think it's an option to consider.

Or, even better, move off MS where possible, and spend that money on staff to massage the changeover :)

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#109

Post by mahyarm »

Einstalbert wrote: post #30
itafroma wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OP, surprised that MS (as with any large company) didn't require you to sign an NDA to not discuss unannounced features during development Mike Krahulik has been a fan of Surface Pro from the beginning,[1] has been very vocal about what he likes and dislikes, and has a very large audience.[2] It seems likely they were counting on him blogging his experiences as soon as possible after his last Surface Pro post,[3] w…

Microsoft keeping Gabe happy with the surface line is probably one of their top 5 PR priorities for the devices. I am not surprised by this post in the least, but I am glad that Gabe is going to get something he can use for his work.

Gabe being in Seattle also makes it pretty easy to interact with him.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#110

Post by vacri »

ajessup wrote: post #18

OP, surprised that MS (as with any large company) didn't require you to sign an NDA to not discuss unannounced features during development. Bold (and encouraging) move on their part if they didn't.

In his case, he'd already generated bad press, so letting him comment to the positive on changes they're working on benefits them.
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