Interesting that the Surface Pro 2 did so much better in terms of "feel" and "lag". I wonder if the switch to the nTrig panel is behind the regression (I have an old HP TX2 with an nTrig panel; it was always terrible, but maybe they've improved since then...).
Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
81–90 of 256 posts
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#82Microsoft demoed 1ms touchscreen lag in 2012. Most modern touchscreens still have 100ms lag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4
Nice video! It really shows the perceptual difference well.
However, I'm not sure it's fair to call it a "touchscreen" when it's most likely a touchpad input surface aligned with an overhead projector. It's impossible to say from the video how feasible it would be to achieve the same performance with an actual touchscreen, let alone a high-resolution mobile device. But I'm looking forward to it. :)
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's admirable that MS is responding to criticism of their device and working for a solution. It is admirable, but their work towards a solution will be fruitless. N-Trig's pressure sensitive stylus technology is vastly inferior to Wacom. Sure, most people can't tell the difference, but most artists can. Sure, artists can still produce professional quality work with an N-Trig stylus, but the experience of using an N…
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Less parallax when drawing too.
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#84It’s very hard to take something like how the device “feels” to draw on and convert that into something engineers can use. I ended up describing it in terms of speaking. I said drawing on the Pro 2 was like having a conversation with someone. With the Surface Pro 3 I feel like I need to either whisper or yell to have the same conversation. I had to press very lightly or very hard, and it changes the way I draw. I was…
In this context, who are the hackers? "asian knock-offs" seems odd in this context. Wacom is a Japanese company. Also, some inexpensive competitors like the monoprice-sold UC-Logic tablets are generally well-received despite having to shove a battery into the pen to avoid wacom's patented inductive coupling.
In this context, who are the hackers?
Programmers who tell themselves, "A stylus? Implementing that would be a piece of cake!" (I have to admit I'm guilty of this exact thing myself.)
"asian knock-offs" seems odd in this context. Wacom is a Japanese company.
And I'm of Korean extraction. From what I've seen, the majority of the knock-offs happen to be from asia. Those are the facts as I understand them. Your "oddness" seems to be supposition.
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#85And I was going to use a Surface Pro tablet with Ubuntu Linux.
If even Microsoft cannot make the device work right the first time around, even while apparently trying hard, I wonder how bad will the situation be on Linux. Still going to try; maybe later, when touch support on Ubuntu will be more ready and Surface Pro's will drop in price on eBay (I'm thinking of going with 256MB+ Surface Pro 2, unless they will make a newer generation of smaller tablets)
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is probably a stretch to call Mike Krahulik a famous millionaire. Microsoft used his art in their recent ad campaigns, which itself was a response to a prior unsolicited positive writeup on their product. So it is perfectly reasonable that they get his feedback (albeit far too late). Not all the problems were fixed, and I suspect some of the problems can't really be fixed given the hardware that is being shipped.…
How is it a stretch? He's a millionaire, there's no denying that. Sure mainstream people might not know who he is but in tech circles literally everyone does. So how is he not famous? I'd challenge you to find a more high profile person using Surface 3 and giving their public thoughts on it. So, my comment stands; if you are a famous millionaire then it's the product for you apparently, because Microsoft will actuall…
He is well-known in gaming circles moreso than tech circles (there is some overlap of course), and I can't confirm or deny he is a millionaire; frankly I have no idea. Famous has an imprecise definition; but as you conceded, "mainstream people" might not know who he is. This is why I consider it a stretch to call him a famous millionaire; I'd hesitate to use the same label used for Cliff Bleszinski or Paul Graham. Krahulk is influential in specific areas, but famous millionaire as the frame seems like a personal issue you're projecting.
And regarding your challenge to find a more high profile person using the SP3 -- it is not released yet. The only people giving public thoughts on it are tech reviewers and Microsoft employees. In that regard, Microsoft used Krahulik's works on their website, so he may very well have augmented his millionaire's gold coin swimming pool with Microsoft money. Despite this, Krahulik still plainly voiced criticisms of the SP3 product, and Microsoft's surface team addressed this feedback in positive way. Of course, they want to leverage his influence. The impacted users would all theoretically benefit. I doubt that the result will be that he alone is getting a Krahulik hotpatch for personal use.
As a developer working with vendor software, I too get prerelease access and are offered an avenue to submit problems I find to the vendor. The primary differences here are that I am strongly discouraged by the vendor to share my experiences with prerelease software.
Lastly, Microsoft showed him that they can address somethings, but he was clear that issues remain. By contrast, the product team didn't respond with a suggestion to "just avoid holding it in that way".
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#87I hope he's getting paid for his time. MS should really be hiring him.
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
In this context, who are the hackers? "asian knock-offs" seems odd in this context. Wacom is a Japanese company. Also, some inexpensive competitors like the monoprice-sold UC-Logic tablets are generally well-received despite having to shove a battery into the pen to avoid wacom's patented inductive coupling.
In this context, who are the hackers? Programmers who tell themselves, "A stylus? Implementing that would be a piece of cake!" (I have to admit I'm guilty of this exact thing myself.) "asian knock-offs" seems odd in this context. Wacom is a Japanese company. And I'm of Korean extraction. From what I've seen, the majority of the knock-offs happen to be from asia. Those are the facts as I understand them. Your "oddness…
Which knock-off tablet and digitizers have you used?
The oddness is that Wacom is itself a Japanese company so even the 'original' products are Asian from soup-to-nuts. I'm unclear on the relevancy of your Korean extraction or what you believe I am supposing.
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the article, it sounds like the Microsoft folks were kicking themselves for that oversight. To their credit, I've made similar mistakes in my career.
Yes, me too. However i'd hope that for a product as big and important to MS as this then there would be more checks and balances in place to make sure that such things don't get overlooked. It's understandable for one engineer to overlook it, maybe even a whole team but for an entire division of design, engineering, QA, marketing etc? Something is rotten in their process.
People make mistakes. Every piece of software ever written has bugs: I don't think that means everyone's process is rotten. It just means they are human.
Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update
#90Microsoft demoed 1ms touchscreen lag in 2012. Most modern touchscreens still have 100ms lag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4
This lag is in the software stack (mostly in UI graphics). Not in hardware. Remember Androids ~>200ms sound lag?
Definitely not. Most of mobile software strives to run at 60fps. That's just 16.7ms.