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Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

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Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#71

Post by CamperBob2 »

stcredzero wrote: post #21

It’s very hard to take something like how the device “feels” to draw on and convert that into something engineers can use. I ended up describing it in terms of speaking. I said drawing on the Pro 2 was like having a conversation with someone. With the Surface Pro 3 I feel like I need to either whisper or yell to have the same conversation. I had to press very lightly or very hard, and it changes the way I draw. I was…

(3) Our patent system grants Wacom monopoly rights measured in decades in return for, well, no societal benefits that are readily apparent.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#72

Post by bcbrown »

krschultz wrote: post #63
TwistedWeasel wrote: post #17

It's admirable that MS is responding to criticism of their device and working for a solution. However, all the issues he experienced seem like they would be quite obvious to anyone testing the device usage for any kind of drawing application (which, for a device with a stylus seems like a common enough use case to be testing), perhaps Microsoft needs to spend more time and effort on their QA process for the next roun…

Seemingly pedantic point, but this is a UX design problem not a QA problem. QA is largely something that you want to automate, minimize, and reduce the cost of. QA is making sure things work as designed. UX design is something that you want to maximize. That's figuring out what you want to make. The tools of the UX design trade are very different. I think the best UX is done with mockups that go into customer feedbac…

>QA is making sure things work as designed.

That is why I don't like describing the Test discipline as QA. It's not QA. When I worked in Test, I viewed my role as making sure things work well for the user, which includes 'testing' the specs to make sure there's no scenarios with glaring pain points. I think there's some parallels with the Obmudsman role in acting as the internal customer advocate.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#73

Post by bgilroy26 »

josefresco wrote: post #56

Seems like a small niche to be focusing on. I understand the PR angle (it's a home run for the PR team) but I don't think catering to artists who draw digitally is going to make or break the tablet. Where's the feel good story about the coder, the gamer, or the office junkie? Each of which makes up a considerably larger slice of the premium laptop/tablet marketplace.

The coder, the gamer, and the office junkie are the traditional Microsoft audience from the 90s + 2000s (maybe in reverse order). Apple had the artist audience even back in the 2000s, macintoshes were really niche-y then

Seeing Apple's huge success in the late 2000s, Microsoft's grand marketing strategy since has been to try and re approach a young hip, artistic audience while not losing their traditional base.

It's a huge shift and it won't be easy, since managers who buy for their offices want a low-rent, predictable product and their feathers are easily ruffled.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#74

Post by smacktoward »

danudey wrote: post #45
huhtenberg wrote: post #23

Gotta really give it to Microsoft. The transformation of the company under Nadella's leadership is really impressive. They really stepped up their game. They finally got someone on the PR team that actually knows what they are doing.

It's starting to feel as though the philosophy in Microsoft is less about 'Windows everywhere', but more about relevance. Product teams are created for various niches (e.g. Surface, Azure, etc.) but those teams now have a large degree of autonomy in pursuing their goals. As an example, the Office team's goals aren't to prop up Windows as a platform by providing a sufficient but substandard product on other platforms,…

It's like they finally got around to reading Dave Winer's post from 13 years ago (!) on the idea of the "strategy tax" (http://scripting.com/davenet/2001/04/30/strategyTax.html):

Sometimes products developed inside a company such as Microsoft have to accept constraints that go against competitiveness, or might displease users, in order to further the cause of another product. I recognized the concept but had never heard the term.

An example. Consider a company that develops both a Web browser and a word processor. The product team for the browser might get lots of input from users saying "We'd like a better editor in the browser." It would be natural to give the users what they want. So they put the feature in their project plan, but when it comes up for review, the CEO shoots them down. "They should use the word processor," he says.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#75

Post by adrianhoward »

josefresco wrote: post #56

Seems like a small niche to be focusing on. I understand the PR angle (it's a home run for the PR team) but I don't think catering to artists who draw digitally is going to make or break the tablet. Where's the feel good story about the coder, the gamer, or the office junkie? Each of which makes up a considerably larger slice of the premium laptop/tablet marketplace.

I dunno.

Not make or break maybe. Be a potentially big market - hella yeah.

The majority of design-ish people I know, including myself, would kill for a decent tablet drawing environment. Folk are already laying out for specialist devices like http://www.wacom.com/en/gb/creative/cintiq-24-hd-touch.

My iPad is cute and useful for many things. I do very rough sketch stuff on it. For professional deign work it's pretty much useless. As somebody who's been buying Apple kit since before Jobs return the surface is the first time I've ever been tempted by Windows hardware.

I know many folk who walk around with a Macbook + iPad + wacom tablet. I can see a lot of those folk switching if the Surface 3 worked well. I know lots of long-term Apple folk who were really tempted by the Surface 2.

The office junkies, coders and games have alternatives. Currently there is almost nothing that does what the Surface 2/3 do, on the design side, in a single device.

(I also imagine that the issues of stylus sensitivity & lag will apply to other interaction models to. Getting those things to feel "natural" is non-trivial. Pleasing the design folk will probably make it better for other peeps too.)

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#76

Post by ebbv »

steele wrote: post #64
ebbv wrote: post #39

So if you're a famous millionaire the Surface Pro 3 is the device for you, and Microsoft will make sure to fix all your problems with it. Hooray?

It is probably a stretch to call Mike Krahulik a famous millionaire. Microsoft used his art in their recent ad campaigns, which itself was a response to a prior unsolicited positive writeup on their product. So it is perfectly reasonable that they get his feedback (albeit far too late). Not all the problems were fixed, and I suspect some of the problems can't really be fixed given the hardware that is being shipped.…

How is it a stretch? He's a millionaire, there's no denying that.

Sure mainstream people might not know who he is but in tech circles literally everyone does. So how is he not famous?

I'd challenge you to find a more high profile person using Surface 3 and giving their public thoughts on it.

So, my comment stands; if you are a famous millionaire then it's the product for you apparently, because Microsoft will actually fix your complaints. Otherwise, good luck.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#77

Post by steele »

Surface Pro is very interesting from a product management perspective. Surface Pro 1 satisfied this niche, and Surface Pro 2 improved upon the first model significantly. Surface Pro 3 addresses many of the form factor concessions of the previous model (aspect ratio, thickness) which would make it theoretically more palatable to the mainstream use cases -- however, the N-Trig digitizer and button placement hardware decisions makes this less appealing to that aforementioned niche.

BUT, you don't have to update. People that found great use in SP1+2, have very little incentive to upgrade for several reasons. Short cycles and price aside, the dilemma is now whether this niche can even commit to buying or recommend a SP2 or Surface Pro accessories even prices drop because SP3 is a clear signal of a significant form factor change. The frankly necessary blade accessories are now fragmented between form factors and the older form will not likely be supported going forward.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#78

Post by itafroma »

headwayoldest wrote: post #59
itafroma wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OP, surprised that MS (as with any large company) didn't require you to sign an NDA to not discuss unannounced features during development Mike Krahulik has been a fan of Surface Pro from the beginning,[1] has been very vocal about what he likes and dislikes, and has a very large audience.[2] It seems likely they were counting on him blogging his experiences as soon as possible after his last Surface Pro post,[3] w…

Gabe is just the character that initially represented Mike Krahulik, the artist of PA and the person writing those posts.

Whoops: fixed, thanks.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#79

Post by i_am_ralpht »

wingerlang wrote: post #42
imaginenore wrote: post #10

Microsoft demoed 1ms touchscreen lag in 2012. Most modern touchscreens still have 100ms lag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

I was under the impression that that setup was something including a camera or something, and not an actual touchscreen.

Yeah, though maybe you could do it with FTIR instead of capacitive, so you wouldn't need external cameras.

Re: Penny Arcade – Surface Pro 3 update

#80

Post by al2o3cr »

programminggeek wrote: post #5

The one thing that nobody seems to appreciate when it comes to pushing forward towards retina displays is just how many more pixels, how much more memory, and how much slower everything is on the same hardware. Yet, anyone who has ever been a gamer knows that changing your resolution has a huge impact on your FPS. It is foolish to think that Microsoft can make the screen much higher resolution, have a similar chip, a…

"It is foolish to think that Microsoft can make the screen much higher resolution, have a similar chip, and not have serious performance problems in terms of responsiveness."

Sure. It's not, however, foolish to wonder why they'd RELEASE a laggy device. Hoping that an already small market will shell out $1000+ for a device that might get a future SW update to work as well as the last model is ridiculous.

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