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Why the Japanese Don't Litter

japantravelcafe.com

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Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#41

Post by ekianjo »

deciplex wrote: post #40
ekianjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no real campaign against smoking in Japan. The most "anti-tobacco" ads you see are about making sure you don't bother people around you when you smoke. And they don't really work, because smokers in Japan are completely inconsiderate of people around them. In Europe I have seen many smokers asking in restaurants before lighting one "does it bother you if I smoke?" but in Japan this would extraordinary to hear…

Most restaurants have smoking and non-smoking areas, and I guess people figure that if you're in the smoking area you at least agree to deal with the smoke. And, if you're in a restaurant that doesn't have a non-smoking area, well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know? I'll remind you that this is basically the same attitude that you saw in the entire West up until about ten years ago before…

> Most restaurants have smoking and non-smoking areas, and I guess people figure that if you're in the smoking area you at least agree to deal with the smoke. And, if you're in a restaurant that doesn't have a non-smoking area, well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know?

Except that most of the facilities are completely inadequate, and you know, when I'm sitting in a non-smoking area and the smoking area is just the table next to me, with no separation whatsoever, well we have a problem. And even when they are vaguely separated, it's through a thin half-sized wall which does not prevent the smoke from moving around. It's THAT ridiculous.

> I'll remind you that this is basically the same attitude that you saw in the entire West up until about ten years ago before smokers became Worse Than Hitler and people stopped caring if they lived in a Nanny State.

Maybe, but in Japan there's no sign of smokers being ostracized at all. They are perfectly tolerated and I don't see many people complaining about them. That's part of the problem.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#42

Post by evan_ »

edandersen wrote: post #13
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #12

Google in Images "Japanese school children clean their classrooms" and you'll find dozens of photos, not just of putting things away, but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The Japanese see cleanliness and orderliness as a primary virtue and leaving a place that they have used clean is taught and reinforced by peer beh…

Not a prank shot - they have actually managed to convince generations of kids to clean their school's toilets using chemicals and no special training. They mask it as "culture" but it's a cost saving measure, they could be getting lessons and an education during that time.

Learning how to clean is a pretty good lesson.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#43

Post by evan_ »

deciplex wrote: post #40
ekianjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no real campaign against smoking in Japan. The most "anti-tobacco" ads you see are about making sure you don't bother people around you when you smoke. And they don't really work, because smokers in Japan are completely inconsiderate of people around them. In Europe I have seen many smokers asking in restaurants before lighting one "does it bother you if I smoke?" but in Japan this would extraordinary to hear…

Most restaurants have smoking and non-smoking areas, and I guess people figure that if you're in the smoking area you at least agree to deal with the smoke. And, if you're in a restaurant that doesn't have a non-smoking area, well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know? I'll remind you that this is basically the same attitude that you saw in the entire West up until about ten years ago before…

> smokers became Worse Than Hitler

Interesting comparison, given that Hitler was an ardent non-smoker and the Nazis instituted one of the first public anti-tobacco campaigns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_G...

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#44

Post by xanfred »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #12

Google in Images "Japanese school children clean their classrooms" and you'll find dozens of photos, not just of putting things away, but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The Japanese see cleanliness and orderliness as a primary virtue and leaving a place that they have used clean is taught and reinforced by peer beh…

I did a year of Rotary exchange to a Japanese high school, and can confirm that we students did in fact clean the toilets. Our school had porcelain "squat" toilets, and they were quite disgusting to scrub. Yet everyone took their turn, with a minimum of complaint. It was normal.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#45

Post by qq66 »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #34
Semiapies wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the UK after enough IRA bombs in wastebins.

And, of course, getting rid of wastebins in the UK hasn't stopped bombings altogether, but it has made it frustratingly difficult to dispose of your litter (I do happen to always take mine with me anyway, but evidence suggests plenty of people don't). Much better - and in use in sensible locations - is a simple transparent bin/bag. Why they're not in use in more places, I'm not sure.

When I lived in the UK (2002-2003) I was told that its perfectly acceptable to leave your litter on the train platform against the wall as there are people who regularly come by to clear it. Is this still true?

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#46

Post by pcurve »

When I was in Japan for a few weeks, I was shocked how immaculate the whole country was.

You know what else shocked me? A flight attendant passing through the airport lobby noticed a small piece of paper litter on the floor. Without any hesitation, she picked it up and put it in her pocket.

You see other workers do the same. They don't just leave it up to cleaning staff. Everybody helps out. It's a cultural thing.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#47

Post by itazula »

free2rhyme214 wrote: post #35
itazula wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smoking is a peeve of mine. So many young people in Japan smoking. It's very surprising because people know better.

They do know better but what I witnessed in Japan was wayyy too much group think going on and not enough individualism. That's probably why there hasn't been that many successful startups in Japan when there's a population of over 100mm ppl.

Startups or not, and getting a little off-topic, it will still be thrilling to see a humanoid land on the moon, perhaps even more thrilling than seeing a human doing the same thing.

And just for fun (because I like the story), according to the Wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soichiro_Honda, Mr. Honda had a little "startup" going in elementary school:

"Honda was not interested in traditional education, his school handed grade reports to the children, but required that it will be returned stamped with the family seal, to make sure that a parent had seen it. Soichiro created a stamp to forge his family seal out of a used rubber bicycle pedal cover. The fraud was soon discovered when Honda started to make forged stamps for other children. Honda did not realize that the stamp had to be mirror-imaged. His family name 本田 was symmetrical when written vertically, so it did not cause a problem, but some of other children's family names were not."

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#48

Post by nikatwork »

ekianjo wrote: post #38
nikatwork wrote: post #31

Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. I saw 3 salarymen get busted within about 15 minutes. The fact that this system even exists indicates that the Japanese do litter. On the flipside, all the fast food joints had wastebins sorted by garbage type, and I did get death stares when I ac…

> Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. It's probably not working very well, because Shinjuku in the morning (at least Kabukicho, if that's what you were referring to) looks like a warzone filled with trash. They do an amazing job to clean it up everyday, however.

It was the South-West end during the daytime, the crowd seemed mostly business people. I get the feeling that Kabukicho and Golden Gai are treated as their own little walled gardens of sin :)

I was also surprised by the number and condition of the homeless. I had expected a communal minded society would look after such people.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#49

Post by deciplex »

ekianjo wrote: post #41
deciplex wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most restaurants have smoking and non-smoking areas, and I guess people figure that if you're in the smoking area you at least agree to deal with the smoke. And, if you're in a restaurant that doesn't have a non-smoking area, well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know? I'll remind you that this is basically the same attitude that you saw in the entire West up until about ten years ago before…

> Most restaurants have smoking and non-smoking areas, and I guess people figure that if you're in the smoking area you at least agree to deal with the smoke. And, if you're in a restaurant that doesn't have a non-smoking area, well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know? Except that most of the facilities are completely inadequate, and you know, when I'm sitting in a non-smoking area and the…

>It's THAT ridiculous.

See second point i.e. "well you're also totally free to not go to that restaurant, you know?"

>That's part of the problem.

I don't think that it is. I don't smoke (aside from the very occasional cigar), but I certainly don't need to ostracize smokers either, and unless they are smoking in a place where it is explicitly forbidden, I don't need to complain about them either.

Re: Why the Japanese Don't Litter

#50

Post by lovemenot »

MVf4l wrote: post #4

To me, "not littering" is different from "cleaning up for others". I need an article to explain why the Japanese clean up for others.

Fans of any flavour enjoy being subsumed by the crowd and I can imagine this behaviour was a way for those Japanese fans to prolong their feeling of group solidarity after the match.

I'd like to have witnessed the propagation of the clean-up-the-stadium meme as it happened. My guess is that for most of the fans, they'd have been initially ambivalent; the niceties of this situation being unfamiliar. One fan decided it was the right thing to clean-up and their neighbours then propagated the activity throughout the population without giving it too much thought. Once the cleaning was in motion, each fan would have to define their range of cleaning for themselves. Since the area is not specified, they'd err on the conservative side, cleaning a maximal range for any of their possible ejecta. This would reflect a preoccupation on quality over considerations such as opportunity cost or fairness.

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