Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

25iq.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 44 posts

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#31

Post by nl »

wellboy wrote: post #24
nl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only thing you learn from Andreessen is something you (presumably) disagree with then you are missing out.

The thing is, anything, everything he has ever said or done is invalidated by this one statement.

Invalidated? What does that mean?

Presumably you mean that his moral judgement is suspect and therefore you won't follow his principles. That's fine, and I can respect that.

What I cannot agree with is that you can't learn anything from someone you disagree with. I think that's a terrible principle to have.

If you can't learn things from people you don't agree with then you are at risk of groupthink[1] at the very least.

As a specific example, William Churchill's leadership of the British Admiralty during the Gallipoli Campaign[2] in World War 2 was - in my view - completely immoral (as well as terrible ineffective). Indeed, his attitude towards the troops he sent to fight created one of the core national myths[3] of my country.

However to reject learning anything from Churchill because of that would deprive me of a lot.

One can learn a lot from Henry Ford about transforming industries. Does the fact that he had his newspapers publish anti-Semitic writings[4] mean we should ignore him completely?

Does Bill Gate's many ethical failings while building Microsoft into a monopoly mean we can't learn from how he structured his development teams during the browser wars (I didn't realize how ironic this example was until after I wrote it. Maybe Marc Andreessen could have learnt from him too..)

In business there are plenty of people with moral failing in one area or another.

In my view you are better sucking the marrow out of their teaching, and then viewing what they say through the lens of your own ethics.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign

[3] http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1398405363/61#61 (Sorry for the random forum link, but finding a better short summary of the "the English officers sent the Aussie Diggers to die while they stayed behind" thing is too hard right now.

[4] http://listverse.com/2010/02/12/10-terrible-bigots-in-modern...

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#33

Post by LargeWu »

tonetheman wrote: post #10

Things I have learned from Marc Andreessen: he thinks Snowden is a traitor. And blames Snowden for causing problems for US companies to sell overseas.

Wealth capitalist angry about allegations of government overreach that threaten to make him only super wealthy instead of obscenely wealthy.

Film at 11.

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#34

Post by wellboy »

nl wrote: post #31
wellboy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, anything, everything he has ever said or done is invalidated by this one statement.

Invalidated? What does that mean? Presumably you mean that his moral judgement is suspect and therefore you won't follow his principles. That's fine, and I can respect that. What I cannot agree with is that you can't learn anything from someone you disagree with. I think that's a terrible principle to have. If you can't learn things from people you don't agree with then you are at risk of groupthink[1] at the very le…

Yes, true. One can certainly learn from what they have done, but I think what I mean with invalidated is that they immediately lose all of their credibility with a statement like this.

Because of this, people won't be inspired by them anymore and their opinion doesn't have weight anymore, because now everybody knows they are not looking to make a difference in the world, they are only looking out for themselves and their own benefit.

Still have hopes for Ben, I've always admired a16z, but this really sucks

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#35

Post by jessaustin »

mpyne wrote: post #14
CamperBob2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I never expected Marc Andreessen to flip his own bozo bit, but that quote did the trick. Andreessen took the concept of "shooting the messenger" to new depths of stupidity when he said that. Still, this link is well worth the few minutes it takes to read. His blog has a lot of "Things I've learned from" entries from various people.

> Andreessen took the concept of "shooting the messenger" to new depths of stupidity when he said that. And yet, not really. With the exception of RSA, American tech. companies are being hammered for the actions of NSA, not for their own "crimes". Even German companies obey German legal directives after all, and Vodafone made clear the other day the extent of government monitoring of networks around the world. To the…

...the types of dangers inherent to an open Internet...

You haven't made the case that the NSA's shenanigans are in any way "inherent" to the internet as currently designed and implemented. I would suggest that these phenomena are due far more directly to the current organization of the USA federal government, and to the oligopoly that exists in internet service in that country. I think we ought to give Cerf, Kahn, and Postel a pass on this one.

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#36

Post by dwaltrip »

wellboy wrote: post #29
edanm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a terrible position to hold about almost anyone uttering almost any sentence.

No, there are simply sentences that fall into this category such as not supporting gay marriage, proclaiming Snowden as a traitor, being anti-abortion, which invalidate everything that the person has ever said or done, because they reveal untenable views like homophobia, ignorance and religious misogonysm. There are some more views, that reveal racism, but lets leave it at that. In this particular case, this ignoranc…

Your zeal has lead you to an absurd conclusion. "Invalidate everything they have ever said or done"? That's not how it works... People can be completely wrong about one thing and have good insight into something else.

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#38

Post by webmaven »

wellboy wrote: post #34
nl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invalidated? What does that mean? Presumably you mean that his moral judgement is suspect and therefore you won't follow his principles. That's fine, and I can respect that. What I cannot agree with is that you can't learn anything from someone you disagree with. I think that's a terrible principle to have. If you can't learn things from people you don't agree with then you are at risk of groupthink[1] at the very le…

Yes, true. One can certainly learn from what they have done, but I think what I mean with invalidated is that they immediately lose all of their credibility with a statement like this. Because of this, people won't be inspired by them anymore and their opinion doesn't have weight anymore, because now everybody knows they are not looking to make a difference in the world, they are only looking out for themselves and t…

I think you still have to qualify that as 'moral or ethical credibility', and even then limit it to topics relating to government power and accountability.

By all accounts, their treatment of founders is very ethical indeed (by Founders' standards), for example, and I wouldn't expect this to impact their credibility as knowledgable VCs at all.

In short, people are complicated, and applying well-earned admiration in one area to transitively enhance someone's reputation in another is clearly an all too common error (hence celebrity endorsements, etc.)

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#39

Post by edanm »

wellboy wrote: post #29
edanm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a terrible position to hold about almost anyone uttering almost any sentence.

No, there are simply sentences that fall into this category such as not supporting gay marriage, proclaiming Snowden as a traitor, being anti-abortion, which invalidate everything that the person has ever said or done, because they reveal untenable views like homophobia, ignorance and religious misogonysm. There are some more views, that reveal racism, but lets leave it at that. In this particular case, this ignoranc…

Firstly, someone being wrong about one thing doesn't mean they're wrong about something else.

Secondly, there are some issues about which people have valid disagreements. This is one of them. Come to think of it, much as I wish it wasn't, gay marriage is also such an issue in most places (though clearly not in Silicon Valley or in Hacker News).

Third, I don't understand how you made the leap from him thinking that Snowden is a traitor, to him thinking that mass surveillance is okay. Maybe he said other things I'm not aware of (seriously - correct me if I'm missing something). But thinking that Snowden is a traitor has nothing to do with views on mass surveillance.

Finally, you are taking an extremely absurd position where the world is entirely black and white - someone says one thing that you disagree with, clearly he thinks terrible things, clearly this invalidates anything he has to say, including on a subject on which he is very knowledgeable, and clearly he's not worth listening to.

That is not a good way to be part of a diverse society, and definitely not a good way to expand your horizons.

Re: Things I’ve Learned From Marc Andreessen

#40

Post by webmaven »

wellboy wrote: post #29
edanm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a terrible position to hold about almost anyone uttering almost any sentence.

No, there are simply sentences that fall into this category such as not supporting gay marriage, proclaiming Snowden as a traitor, being anti-abortion, which invalidate everything that the person has ever said or done, because they reveal untenable views like homophobia, ignorance and religious misogonysm. There are some more views, that reveal racism, but lets leave it at that. In this particular case, this ignoranc…

We have, but it seems we've forgotten the lessons of the Japanese interment camps, COINTELPRO, J. Edgar Hoover, etc.
Post reply on HN