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Founder Depression

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Founder Depression

#161

Post by lateguy »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

What a good response, I first read sam article and agreed to him but with good response changed a lot. I still feel there is a problem with life that is tradeoff. Lets see right from the start when we are born in this world we don't have any thoughts or goals nothing. The world start giving us reality. Suppose most of the people here on HN will want to be a better programmer and improve themselves. In Programming they find something good. Ideally as they were born with nothing so how they can say this is actually they want, so when people say this is what they really want I think they still say what the world them to say. Now the next point come when people make decision and then repent, its a tradeoff. Suppose Right now someone have option of doing a PHD in Physics( which is my passion) and other to roam across world in some job( which also he wants). He choose PHD and after 10 years he say he didn't satisfied with PHD he must have took the job, I feel we human always do that because we enjoy the first think and now we will say we didn't enjoy it much and want other think. Yes, I agree people say that enjoy their work and is in resonance with it because they don't have some equal tradeoff to make their work for them is given to world by them as a best thing.

A good youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvos4nORf_Y

Re: Founder Depression

#162

Post by billmalarky »

eli wrote: post #22
taylorhou wrote: post #4

for the significant others of founders - http://lifeofastartupgf.com - being in a relationship with a founder is tough and sometimes, extremely stressful.

I guess it's the thought that counts, but that's not a resource with a lot of depth. My wife keeps saying she should organize a Startup Wives reality show, but I think we'd have to manufacture a lot of the drama.

All reality show drama is completely manufactured. It's still a great idea for a reality show (I can't believe I just said that).

Re: Founder Depression

#163

Post by gfodor »

zeeshanm wrote: post #137

Lots of interesting comments here. I'll put some thoughts here, too... I have always thought there are two kinds of people in this world. One who do things that make other people's life better. Others who reap benefits of things done by the former group. To me the question is about whether you want to be selfless in the service of others or live a steady life. Once you have figured out, there is no shame in failing i…

Feeling the need to constantly be trying to improve the world and help others is a noble concept but also one that, if focused on too intensely, can unintentionally lead you down a dark path. By setting unrealistic expectations for yourself you can often set yourself up for failure by reaching too far too early. It also puts a heavy burden on your shoulders of being your own worst critic, undermining your motivation and clashing with your basic human desires that fall out of natural selfishness. As PG said in "Good and Bad Procrastination":

"You can't look a big problem too directly in the eye. You have to approach it somewhat obliquely. But you have to adjust the angle just right: you have to be facing the big problem directly enough that you catch some of the excitement radiating from it, but not so much that it paralyzes you. You can tighten the angle once you get going, just as a sailboat can sail closer to the wind once it gets underway."

I think the effects of trying to tackle big problems in the name of helping others head on can go beyond paralysis and into poor judgement in both strategy and tactics. The best way to change the world in my view is to first, know thyself, and then point yourself in the general direction you want to go.

From there, let your passions lead you where they may but be conscious if you are straying too far from the direction you were headed. Also, it seems more important to know if you've certainly begun heading in the wrong direction than knowing what exactly the right direction was from the outset.

Re: Founder Depression

#164

Post by aosmith »

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm a solo founder (I have a great support system of other founders) and I rarely find myself depressed. At times I'm angry at myself for decisions I've made but hindsight is 20:20.

Re: Founder Depression

#165

Post by peachngrapes »

At the beginning most founders getting some kind of depression but the better founders quickly adapt to the situation and answer 'some version of great' when asked how their startup is going.

The reason is quite simple -- successful founders are always positive because every event which happens has some positive impact in their perception, even if it might feel as a failure. Successful founders don't use the word failure, nothing is a failure to them.

People who are depressed -- it doesn't matter if those are founders or not -- tend to let external circumstances determine the mood or happyness level. Most people are happy when it's good weather and sad if it is raining, successful people do not let something like rain influence their mood level.

The question is rather why the topic 'depression' pops up quite often on HN.

My theory: I had very successful times as a founder and also -- let's call them -- 'slow' times as a founder, in particular in the beginning. When I had successful times I didn't check HN for months a single time, when I had 'slow' times, I checked HN every 30 minutes.

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Re: Founder Depression

#166

Post by ibisum »

On the flipside of this is the fact that, as a founder, you are a clear target for subconscious repression by everyone, thanks to the tall poppy syndrome. So, many times, discussing the issues and problems with others is precisely what you shouldn't do, because you will trigger the syndrome.

Its very important, thus, to have established trust with your support network before you go into the founder seat. If you don't have a support network that consciously navigates around such things as TPS and mobbing-mentality, then you're going to be in for a hard time. The fact of the matter is that humans are subconsciously hard-wired to dissent against organizational structures requiring hard work and honest production, and a founder getting up there on the hill and attempting to work hard and produce new things needs to understand that the most difficult thing about organizing humans, is humans.

Disclaimer: founder who just went through all of the above, and still working hard to survive in spite of it all.

Re: Founder Depression

#167

Post by keithpeter »

courtneypowell wrote: post #151
ScottBurson wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not all founders are Threes. It would be interesting to type everyone in a YC class (or several) and see what the distribution was. I'd certainly expect some Eights and a smaller number of Sixes. And Fives will of course be well represented among the technical founders. (Interesting to see someone plugging the Enneagram on HN. Doesn't look like anyone else has picked up on it, though.)

I am very pleased to see other HN readers mention the enneagram. A good friend told me about it a couple of years back and I can honestly say it has helped me better understand myself and others. I see lots of 3's in startups, along with some 1's and 7's. I agree that 5's/8's seem to make up the majority of engineers I've met.

"...I can honestly say it has helped me better understand myself and others"

And that I think is the value of these typologies.

Reading the Wikipedia page about the enneagram, I see a system of nine types with three sub-types, various connections between the types, 'wings' and 'drives'.

Am I being cynical if I think that system considered in the abstract is sufficiently rich to support almost any interpretation?

Re: Founder Depression

#168

Post by peterkelly »

yaelwrites wrote: post #152
EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

I knew before even clicking that link it was going to be an Alan Watts video. Just brilliant.

Re: Founder Depression

#169

Post by redthrowaway »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

>Founders need to take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves why they're doing what they're doing

I'm happy. The happiest I've ever been, in fact. I just graduated after a decade of fucking around and I have a job that I enjoy and that pays me fairly well. Tomorrow, I'm going to buy myself a motorcycle. I like my friends. Life is good.

I've never been able to look in a mirror and honestly answer that question. Of all of the things I've ever felt insecure about, "why are you making the choices you are" tops the list. The biggest mental block I've ever experienced is trying to answer that question, and even as I write honestly about my struggles to do so I'm still not able to face it.

The only explanation I've ever come up with is that I'm terrified of where that question might lead me. I'm afraid of losing the happiness I have, of somehow breaking the spell and being expelled from Mt Achievement to wallow in the shadows with the rest of the benighted. I'm worried that subjecting my actions and beliefs to rigorous analysis might somehow invalidate them, and with them the foundation of my happiness.

It's a strange sort of cognitive dissonance, to at once kneel at the altar of skepticism and rationality, and also to shield my most cherished beliefs from same. To be aware of that dissonance, and yet be unwilling or unable to fix it, is stranger still.

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