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Founder Depression

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Founder Depression

#151

Post by courtneypowell »

ScottBurson wrote: post #150
EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

Well, not all founders are Threes. It would be interesting to type everyone in a YC class (or several) and see what the distribution was. I'd certainly expect some Eights and a smaller number of Sixes. And Fives will of course be well represented among the technical founders. (Interesting to see someone plugging the Enneagram on HN. Doesn't look like anyone else has picked up on it, though.)

I am very pleased to see other HN readers mention the enneagram. A good friend told me about it a couple of years back and I can honestly say it has helped me better understand myself and others. I see lots of 3's in startups, along with some 1's and 7's. I agree that 5's/8's seem to make up the majority of engineers I've met.

Re: Founder Depression

#152

Post by yaelwrites »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

Re: Founder Depression

#153

Post by nlh »

wting wrote: post #120

> If you ask a founder how her startup is going, the answer is almost always some version of “Great!” This is not founder-specific but a fairly typical American greeting. "How's it going?" "Pretty good, you?" "Not too bad, how 'bout the weather / sports team?" By comparison, the next time someone initiates the standard greeting try responding with something out of the ordinary. "I'm having a difficult time with foo"…

I think there's two different things going on here. What you talk about is very much real -- the standard "how's it going?" or "how are you?" American question/response ("Good! You?"). Answering that sort of question in the way you suggest is a fairly non-American thing.

But I think there is also a more specific founder/startup conversation that Sam refers to -- that's more like this:

Q: "Hey, how are you?"

A: "Good! You?"

Q: "I'm good. So how are things with the company? How are you guys doing?"

That's where the typical "Oh we're killing it!" is coming in and where it might be nice for some to be a bit more honest. "We're trying. It's a struggle." You can also learn a lot about the person you're talking to by seeing how they respond to this. The good ones are the ones who respond with empathy and who want to listen.

Re: Founder Depression

#154

Post by RRiccio »

wting wrote: post #120

> If you ask a founder how her startup is going, the answer is almost always some version of “Great!” This is not founder-specific but a fairly typical American greeting. "How's it going?" "Pretty good, you?" "Not too bad, how 'bout the weather / sports team?" By comparison, the next time someone initiates the standard greeting try responding with something out of the ordinary. "I'm having a difficult time with foo"…

The enthusiastic "GREAT!" responses were something I had to adapt to while in the US. In LatAm/Europe, even when great things have happened, the standard answer is "The company is ok, how about yours?" -- boasting about your successes isn't socially accepted.

Re: Founder Depression

#155

Post by lisper »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #68
Vekz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Oakland with the same offer

I'm in Oakland too and have some experience with the ups and downs (and downs, and downs) of starting a company. If anyone could use a sympathetic ear, I'd like to help.

+1. I'm about to go oh for five so I definitely know how it goes. Maybe we should start a support group.

Re: Founder Depression

#156

Post by Noxchi »

mindcrime wrote: post #48

I can definitely relate to this. There are definitely times when it's hard to talk to anybody... and I don't know about you guys, but with some topics I actually find it harder to talk to someone I know, than, say, a random stranger at a bar. Luckily I have at least one or two friends, who, for whatever reason, I can talk to about "founder depression" issues more easily than other people. Strangely enough, it's not e…

>I can definitely relate to this. There are definitely times when it's hard to talk to anybody... and I don't know about you guys, but with some topics I actually find it harder to talk to someone I know, than, say, a random stranger at a bar. Luckily I have at least one or two friends, who, for whatever reason, I can talk to about "founder depression" issues more easily than other people. Strangely enough, it's not even that they're my closer friends, they're just people where the nature of the relationship feels "different" in some subtle way

That's because you're trying to maintain / live up to a reputation you've set to people close to you.

You believe that if you admit fault, they will love you / want you less.

Where if you talk to people that aren't close, you have no reputation to maintain and their love doesn't mean as much.

Re: Founder Depression

#157

Post by agumonkey »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

I felt the blind achievement in college. Defining your year through the pressure of graduating, until you see your marksheet. The fear turns into happiness for about 5 minutes. As soon as you left the room, you start to wonder ... So what do you do ? well enroll for the next year. Until colleges end and you feel void.

Re: Founder Depression

#158

Post by ScottBurson »

courtneypowell wrote: post #151
ScottBurson wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not all founders are Threes. It would be interesting to type everyone in a YC class (or several) and see what the distribution was. I'd certainly expect some Eights and a smaller number of Sixes. And Fives will of course be well represented among the technical founders. (Interesting to see someone plugging the Enneagram on HN. Doesn't look like anyone else has picked up on it, though.)

I am very pleased to see other HN readers mention the enneagram. A good friend told me about it a couple of years back and I can honestly say it has helped me better understand myself and others. I see lots of 3's in startups, along with some 1's and 7's. I agree that 5's/8's seem to make up the majority of engineers I've met.

Ones and Sevens, huh? Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that, but it makes sense.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a place for an Enneagram-oriented discussion site for founders. What do you think?

Re: Founder Depression

#160

Post by h1karu »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

If I don't indulge in that coffee-guzzling manic carrot chasing mind-set then I'm not going to be as productive as the next guy it would seem. If you want to be an olympic bike racer then you have to do the same harsh practice regime that the rest of the athletes are doing in order to stay in shape.

The difference is that some founders learn how to 'snap out of it', to decompress when they need to decompress. In other words they learn how to relax deeply into the felt presence of whatever arises in the mind and body. They don't teach that in school, nor on the job, but quite often life finds a way to teach that lesson.

The forth way stuff doesn't resonate with me personally. I'm feeling the buddha dhamma especially the early stuff.. ie the 3 characteristics, vipassana/samatha. If I had to delve into something less ancient I'd look more closely at Zen.

back to work indeed.

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