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For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

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Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#221

Post by voltagex_ »

jnbiche wrote: post #151
Ologn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people still think it's a scam when huge companies with massive legal departments are accepting it. Sub-prime real estate was a scam. Huge companies with massive legal departments protected themselves from the illegal part of the scam - all those loan officers telling people to lie on their loan applications. In fact these banks got their lobbyists to get them TARP bailouts after the scam had run its course. Banks…

At what point would you accept that Bitcoin is not a scam? What percentage of the Fortune 500 accepting it? How many years? 10 years? 20 years? Can you give a number? I mean, at least Prof. Bitcorn gave us a date. An open ended "it's a scam and you people are going to learn...someday" is not very useful. And speaking of value, after years of paying $30 a pop to receive a few thousand dollars from Europe in 3-5 busine…

This is tangential to your point, but I recently did a international money transfer to a friend. The fee was $40AUD for For Bitcoin I need to:

* Get the requisite amount of bitcoins, plus a percentage extra to protect against fluctuations (BTC crashed is not a valid excuse for non-payment of rent)

* Help said friend set up a BTC wallet, plus security

* Find a trustworthy person willing to exchange USD for BTC at some agreed value

* Send friend to person and hope the exchange goes as planned.

I'd love to use BTC in place of IMT but it's just not easy enough yet.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#222

Post by tkinom »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #184
knz42 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, the paper on which $100 bills are printed is quite worthless as well. I think ever since people have stopped using gold and silver bullion (after arrowheads and knives) as currency items, there has been this consensus that money has the value that people give to it, not the value of its material (or, in BTC's case, immaterial) representations.

Further to your point: BTC at least has the property that someone cannot arbitrarily create a new unit (without doing the requisite, increasingly difficult, work). What exists with BTC is 21 million or so unique valid hashes and no others can be created. With money, say USD, there exist trillions and no guarantee that some party (the government) will not create massive amounts of additional units.

What if, one day, someone equips with quantum computer + smart can figure out the private hashes in anyone's wallet base on the public BTC record?

Would the BTC become completely worthless immediately?

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#223

Post by jnbiche »

voltagex_ wrote: post #221
jnbiche wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point would you accept that Bitcoin is not a scam? What percentage of the Fortune 500 accepting it? How many years? 10 years? 20 years? Can you give a number? I mean, at least Prof. Bitcorn gave us a date. An open ended "it's a scam and you people are going to learn...someday" is not very useful. And speaking of value, after years of paying $30 a pop to receive a few thousand dollars from Europe in 3-5 busine…

This is tangential to your point, but I recently did a international money transfer to a friend. The fee was $40AUD for For Bitcoin I need to: * Get the requisite amount of bitcoins, plus a percentage extra to protect against fluctuations (BTC crashed is not a valid excuse for non-payment of rent) * Help said friend set up a BTC wallet, plus security * Find a trustworthy person willing to exchange USD for BTC at some…

Agreed, it works best now when both parties are actively using Bitcoin. Otherwise, extra steps are added like you enumerate.

That number of Bitcoin users is only increasing with each passing day.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#224

Post by cpayne »

smtddr wrote: post #202
vijayboyapati wrote: post #196

This is good in a way. It's yet another tacit admission of the legal legitimacy of bitcoin by USG. It's not like USG would seize 20kg of cocaine then sell it into the market in an auction!

"This is actually good news!" -- http://thisisactuallygoodnews.com/ But seriously, I'm a bit suspicious about what gov would do with the list of all the people willing to buy those coins.

If you read the criteria for bidder registration ($200,000 deposit) I wouldn't be too worried.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#225

Post by qq66 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #176
ThomPete wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you because it's important that people realize why you are wrong. The value of any fiat, piece of gold, diamond etc isn't falsifiable either. You are assuming that other types of currency has inherent value. They don't.

Gold and diamonds have inherent value - they're both used industrially. Bitcoin perhaps doesn't have less inherent value than a non-backed currency though; but even being decades passed gold standard, and such, currencies that have a "reliable" government as support are still pretty reliable.

Very little of gold and diamond's prices are their industrial value, just like very little of the value of a dollar bill is its industrial value in burning it to heat a factory.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#226

Post by crdoconnor »

mrb wrote: post #185
polshaw wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has very limited use as a serious transaction system while there is so much volatility. Prices are therefore pegged to local currencies, and if you want to keep that then it's no longer low cost because conversion to/from local currency costs just as much. The speculation and (eventually) deflationary nature of BTC significantly hinders the chances of it ever stabilising, and therefore a true 'bitcoin economy' eme…

The arguments you make (speculation + deflation) have been discussed many times. The answer is always the same. Bitcoin proponents argue that they are not a problem because: 1. As the use of Bitcoin increases over time, as the exchange markets become bigger and deeper, as economic activity is surpassing speculative activity, etc, the effect of speculation are becoming smaller and smaller. There is evidence that this…

Deflation will PREVENT economic activity from surpassing speculative activity. This is the problem with deflation - people hoard instead of spending, which is why it is "generally" believed to be detrimental. It is detrimental.

Bitcoin's volatility is a direct result of this feature.

>Bitcoin is an experiment that will perhaps disprove it.

The hilarious thing is that the experiment already proved it.

You want a cryptocurrency that isn't absurdly volatile? Make it steadily inflationary, not steadily deflationary.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#227

Post by LeoPanthera »

tkinom wrote: post #222
maerF0x0 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further to your point: BTC at least has the property that someone cannot arbitrarily create a new unit (without doing the requisite, increasingly difficult, work). What exists with BTC is 21 million or so unique valid hashes and no others can be created. With money, say USD, there exist trillions and no guarantee that some party (the government) will not create massive amounts of additional units.

What if, one day, someone equips with quantum computer + smart can figure out the private hashes in anyone's wallet base on the public BTC record? Would the BTC become completely worthless immediately?

If it happened overnight - perhaps.

But the algorithms behind Bitcoin are agreed on literally by consensus, the clients in the network which reach a majority are in control.

If it became clear that something in Bitcoin was about to be broken, the algorithm could be changed to something more secure, if a majority agreed.

Past transactions would not be affected - they are immutable - and new ones would become safe.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#228

Post by argaba »

Ologn wrote: post #97
artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

Bitcoins are absolutely worthless. If there is any sign of a tech bubble, it is these worthless hashes that people pay hundreds of dollars for. One of the genius aspects of the Bitcoin scam is the limited output and increasing difficulty as it goes on. This keeps the scam going longer. If it were like tulip bulbs, or subprime real estate, or pets.com type stocks, the bubble would eventually burst. With the types of b…

> Why are Bitcoins valuable? Anyone thinking of buying an ASIC or a Bitcoin should read from the Bitcoin boosters the answer to this question. There is no answer. Which is why Bitcoin is bound to crash.

Simple answer: Supply and demand. There is demand, you just have to research for more than 20 minutes to find the reasons for the demand aside from the artificial one created from people using it as a means for returns in investment.

Why do you jump to conclusions on topics in which you are clearly uninformed?

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#229

Post by SilasX »

pessimizer wrote: post #194
SilasX wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a non-standard usage of "accept". Does everyone who accepts a payment method while hedging it also not count as another vendor who accepts it? If someone accepts PayPal while insuring against the possibility of not being paid "not accept PayPal"? If a non-US vendor uses forward/option contracts to maintain cash flow in the local currency, do they "not accept" USD?

This doesn't count as insurance, though, because no risk is ever actually held, it's farmed out. The most anti-bitcoin person in the world will accept USD that has been converted from bitcoin by an entity that is actually taking the risk, because by necessity it needs to hold lots of bitcoin reserves just to do business.

Just like how "The most anti-USD person in the world will accept Yen that has been converted from USD..."

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#230

Post by dusklight »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #89
artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

The volatility in the bitcoin price just demonstrates how the majority of the people trading it have no conception of how to value the underlying asset (i.e. demand for a low cost transaction system) and thus it is speculators leading speculators a la the blind leading the blind. The current sharp price decrease is because people are worried that whoever wins this auction (and the subsequent auction of DPR's coins) w…

Can you please disclose how many bitcoins you own and if you have any vested interests in keeping the bitcoin exchange rate high. Thanks.
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