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Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

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Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#71

Post by genericuser »

Fuxy wrote: post #24
largote wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone can argue that they don't have access to their email right now (on a trip or something). Or that the associated email has "been hacked".

You can access email from just about anywhere with a internet connection. It's not Netflix you don't need to stream anything any crappy connection will do. I find it hard to believe you're unable to check your email for weeks. Unless you don't want to but then don't complain at that time.

Lots of people still don't have smart phones, or computers they travel with. And so they do not use email when they travel.

And believe it or not there are still people in this world that may only have an email address with their employer which they don't access regularly outside of work.

And now back to the original article:

We are only getting one of many parts of this story, for all we know the scammer perfectly told a sob story about ordering a gift for their grandson who they haven't seen in several years and will be visiting soon but it didn't arrive in time for their trip and now would like it sent directly to the grandson while they are visiting him so they can still see the joy their gift will bring him.

My point is I don't assume that Amazon isn't trying pretty hard to prevent this fraud, and I don't assume scammers aren't putting in quite a bit of work to commit it.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#72

Post by georgemcbay »

danielweber wrote: post #39

UI complaint: If I click on a picture to view a larger version of it, I should not have to hunt around the page for a blue button to stop viewing the large image.

Thanks for the feedback, you're right!

My site (which is woefully unfinished even for its originally intended purpose) is primarily used as a photo-blog showing photo albums to remote friends and family. This rant was the first text-heavy traditional blog-post I've made to it. I need to put some work into making the UI make sense for posts made in that context.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#73

Post by Washuu »

eli wrote: post #56
bkeroack wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change your registered domain address! There's basically no upside to having your "real" address listed.

What should I put instead? Isn't a bogus address grounds for ICANN to take your domain name away?

Check if your domain registrar offers an anonymous registration service. Mine provides it for free, but some charge a small yearly fee. It is still fine per ICANN standards since it simply goes to a forwarding service.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#74

Post by big_maybe »

georgemcbay wrote: post #33
brador wrote: post #13

Just a note that Amazon have been known to ban accounts if you action too many returns. The bans are very rare, but they are for life and across all Amazon properties. Hit up Google for more.

This is my primary lingering worry about the whole situation, that it may impact my ability to get replacement items sent out if I actually need them in the future. Hopefully they take your Amazon history into account when figuring this sort of thing out because I've been a customer for a very long time and have spent an amount of money that would likely seem obscene (if I totalled it up) over the years.

>> Hopefully they take your Amazon history into account

But of course they won't. Your experience with them clearly demonstrates that reality. No leg of that octopus knows what any of the other legs are doing.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#75

Post by aestra »

My experience with Amazon customer service hasn't given me any faith in their competence.

Years and years ago I ordered a few items, mostly DVDs. I got the items. Months later I get an email from Amazon customer service saying I owe them money from that order because I never paid for it. I said "huh?" I call customer service and I found out it was because there was a chargeback. I didn't do a chargeback so I was confused.

Eventually I figure it out because the CC number shows up on the invoice with the last 4 digits. I accidentally transposed the last 2 digits of my CC number. I combed through my CC statements and found out that I indeed wasn't ever charged for the original items. Apparently the card was valid and was charged even though it was someone else's card. That means they didn't even do the least bit of checking to see if the billing address was the same or even name.

I call up and told them what happened. They just were dumbfounded and confused about the whole situation and didn't know how to handle it. They just kept insisting I return the items and they'll give me a refund. I think she was confused as to what I was even trying to tell her since I received the items. I said I didn't want to return them and even if I did they were now used items. They said "what's the problem then?" I told them they THEY sent ME and email saying how I owe money. I wanted to take care of it. Well finally the customer service rep just took down my right CC number and presumably wrote it in as a note in the logs or something.

I was never charged for the order.

---

Even more years ago my college boyfriend told me that when he was like 17 him and his friends played some kinda "prank" where they ordered some expensive cameras shipped to the school and put in some fake name and credit card. Apparently according to him the cameras shipped. Kids freaked out they would get in trouble, they told a science teacher. Science teacher took care of it and called Amazon before the cameras arrived to say that it was just some kids messing around.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#76

Post by 33W »

Washuu wrote: post #73
eli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should I put instead? Isn't a bogus address grounds for ICANN to take your domain name away?

Check if your domain registrar offers an anonymous registration service. Mine provides it for free, but some charge a small yearly fee. It is still fine per ICANN standards since it simply goes to a forwarding service.

From ICANN's perspective though, doesn't that mean that the owner of the domain is the registrar?

While most registrars would be perfectly fine, I worry about the one that is willing to take the domain for themselves (for a domain not worth going to court over).

While not exactly what happened, I remember the case of the @N twitter account be stolen (https://medium.com/@N/how-i-lost-my-50-000-twitter-username-...), and wonder if having your actual information on the registration would help or hurt a situation like that.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#77

Post by panarky »

sdrinf wrote: post #14

Here's a working hypothesis: | Why is Amazon's security for replacement orders so lax? Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. | Why would they send a replacement to an address that has never been associated with me, and is in a wholly different state than the one the original item was sent to? Because the time between ordering an item, and defect can be sufficiently large to cover moves: peo…

  the scammer just needed the name, email and billing address
  associated with their accounts
Guess what, eBay just leaked 150 million names, emails and addresses. This will be a goldmine for scammers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-replacement-fraud-2014...

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#78

Post by AustinDizzy »

georgemcbay wrote: post #67
jastorific wrote: post #41

I used to be an Amazon customer service rep. I know for a fact that replacements can only be sent to the original address. However, you can change the address after the order's been made. Calling into customer service to change this address is going to be risky, so doing it self-serve online is probably what's being done here. These hackers had access to your account I suspect.

Thanks for the insider info. One question I have though is if they did have access to my account and are able to change addresses after an order is made online, why not go for the gusto and make really expensive orders using my on-file credit card numbers instead of just doing replacement items? In any case, I've changed both my password and my email address on Amazon, so if they did have access to the account that s…

It's because they didn't want to alert you of the charge. Coming from a previous blackhat, the last thing a blackhat would want to do is alert you that something is happening. How often do you check your bank account? Probably once a day, maybe more. How often do you check your Amazon? Maybe only when you're going to buy things. I have my accounts set to text/notify me with every transaction detail.

Another reason why it'd be a replacement is because you don't get charged anything directly. They're betting you see the $0.00 charge, no bank activity, and you'll just brush it off like it was just a glitch. Not only this, but half the people who do this aren't even 18 and they're just reading tutorials on forums for how to get free stuff by social engineering or "hacking."

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#79

Post by patcheudor »

"Also, our secure server software (SSL) is the industry standard and among the best software available today for secure commerce transactions."

Hey! What the heck? I'm in the security industry and had no idea about this new "secure server software" and why is the TLA SSL? What the heck? I've been on vacation for the last week, when did it hit?

On a serious note, I understand that some security teams hire non-technical types into the team but it's always the responsibility of senior staff to make sure they are at least understanding the basics, especially when communicating with customers. Say it with me: Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). There's a credibility problem here somewhere.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#80

Post by habosa »

Another angle: this is why I shop at Amazon, and make a point to buy items fulfilled by them directly.

Any time I have had a problem with an Amazon item, they have made it insanely easy, and cheap, for me to get a new one.

With the Kindle 2 (first one with the directional nub) the screen was VERY fragile. I used the official case but just putting it in my bag caused the screen to crack 3x in a year. When this would happen, I'd call Amazon and they'd have a new one on my doorstep the next morning. Then I'd use that box to send the old one back, no questions asked. Sure I could have been a fraudster and probably could have somehow kept 2 Kindles, but I appreciated the customer service.

[Aside: no I'm not just an idiot, the Kindle 2 really was that fragile. I've had a Kindle of every generation and never broken any other screen, but broke that one 3x].

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