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Ask HN: How much?

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Re: Ask HN: How much?

#81

Post by sho »

jroes wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150,000/yr (~75/hr) is low.

How is that low? once again, I must whip out some statistics: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresu... The average full-time web developer salary is 70k. I'm not saying I don't want to make $150k+, but I just can't find any way to substantiate the claim that I'm worth that much.

There are wild variations between what two different "web developers" can produce. As the type of person who is actually interested in programming enough to be hanging out on a site like this, you are probably at the top end of the chart without even realising it. The bottom end is the schmuck clicking around in Dreamweaver, you never see him but he outnumbers you 20 to 1, and he is dragging the salary down to 70k. If you are familiar with statistics, you might say that 70k is the mode but I doubt it is the mean.

Everyone should listen to tptacek, he is absolutely right. It is the value you can deliver, not what your actual cost is. A good web site can be literally worth millions. Deliver the final product, end to end, and you can charge a good proportion of that. 70k is "sitting down money" and most good web devs should not accept anything like that.

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#82

Post by herrherr »

In my 3 years of freelancing I have done quite a few websites (40+), but I never reached prices that were this high.

Here are my rates. Btw I see no reason to post this anonymously. It's ok to charge money =)

- HTML Website $1500+ (without design)

- CMS $2200 - $12000 (without design)

Normally I'm using fixed prices, but in case someone specifically asks for my hourly rate I quote $70/h. Note: I ran this business part-time while doing my bachelor. Since I'm now a B.Sc (since last week) I think I might increase the rates. Guess that's appropriate, right?

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#83

Post by herrherr »

antidaily wrote: post #76

I used to throw out numbers and almost always underbid. These days I ask for the budget, figure out how many hours that comes out to, and tell them what they get. I never give a number before the potential client tells me what they can spend. They know what they can afford so why play games?

Unfortunately some clients like to play this game and don't mention their budget. In my opinion this makes it worse for both sides.

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#84

Post by Andys »

herrherr wrote: post #82

In my 3 years of freelancing I have done quite a few websites (40+), but I never reached prices that were this high. Here are my rates. Btw I see no reason to post this anonymously. It's ok to charge money =) - HTML Website $1500+ (without design) - CMS $2200 - $12000 (without design) Normally I'm using fixed prices, but in case someone specifically asks for my hourly rate I quote $70/h. Note: I ran this business par…

Speaking for myself, if I was hiring someone to do a website, or a CMS, I couldn't care less if they had a B.Sc. or not. I wouldn't check, and I certainly wouldn't let it change my mind about the price being charged.

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#85

Post by herrherr »

Andys wrote: post #84
herrherr wrote: post #82

In my 3 years of freelancing I have done quite a few websites (40+), but I never reached prices that were this high. Here are my rates. Btw I see no reason to post this anonymously. It's ok to charge money =) - HTML Website $1500+ (without design) - CMS $2200 - $12000 (without design) Normally I'm using fixed prices, but in case someone specifically asks for my hourly rate I quote $70/h. Note: I ran this business par…

Speaking for myself, if I was hiring someone to do a website, or a CMS, I couldn't care less if they had a B.Sc. or not. I wouldn't check, and I certainly wouldn't let it change my mind about the price being charged.

I'm fine with your argument, but you would be suprised how some clients are argueing. For example: "You are no professionals (read: no finished studies), therefore I'm not paying more than $X."

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#86

Post by cellis »

tptacek wrote: post #65
hackeronymous wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how much per hour would you say that it's worth?

You got downmodded for complaining about being downmodded. The anchor price for generic (solo, incl. project management and interaction design, but excluding graphic design) web dev is ~$120/hr, but Rails and Django people are hard to find right now. iPhone rates seem to top out at around $200/hr, and iPhone devs "feel" like the hardest consultants to hire right now, so there's your range. Note that these rates bear…

Thomas,

You say iPhone devs top out at 200/hr. What do pen testers, (not necessarily at the Matasano level) top out at?

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#87

Post by utku_karatas2 »

Laurentvw wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did this take more than 3 hours to make? Did you provide any post-implementation support at all? If either are true, you wildly underbid.

It definitely took more than 3 hours, I'm not superman lol. Everything was made from scratch. The admin panel took most of my time. Keep in mind I also made the design, registered the domain name and set up the hosting. Support was also provided, we got together so I could explain how he could manage the website on his own. It was my first real freelance project though, so I let him choose the price.

Lol, dude, so you're where the Chinese companies outsource to :).

Joke aside, I suggest using Django in such low budget projects if the admin is a selling point. Will save you some time at least (In Django a very slick admin is automatically there for you). Best of the luck.

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#88

Post by utku_karatas2 »

As another freelancer much below your rate I wonder if they knew you were a one man show in your 100K project. Usually firms want to see teams and sales reps in suits if they're going to shell out large amounts like that. How did you ever gained their trust?

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#89

Post by tptacek »

cellis wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got downmodded for complaining about being downmodded. The anchor price for generic (solo, incl. project management and interaction design, but excluding graphic design) web dev is ~$120/hr, but Rails and Django people are hard to find right now. iPhone rates seem to top out at around $200/hr, and iPhone devs "feel" like the hardest consultants to hire right now, so there's your range. Note that these rates bear…

Thomas, You say iPhone devs top out at 200/hr. What do pen testers, (not necessarily at the Matasano level) top out at?

Email me, and I'll give you an answer.

Re: Ask HN: How much?

#90

Post by midnightmonster »

herrherr wrote: post #82

In my 3 years of freelancing I have done quite a few websites (40+), but I never reached prices that were this high. Here are my rates. Btw I see no reason to post this anonymously. It's ok to charge money =) - HTML Website $1500+ (without design) - CMS $2200 - $12000 (without design) Normally I'm using fixed prices, but in case someone specifically asks for my hourly rate I quote $70/h. Note: I ran this business par…

Clients are sometimes amused that I actually majored in English and philosophy, but I've never gotten any grief about it. Raise your rates because after 40 sites you're better than you were 3 years ago.
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