For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins • Hacker News Board

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#111

Post by smrtinsert » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:56 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #36

Could someone explain the logic behind the price drop? Is that related to the fact that those 30k will be sold below the standard price? For some reason it seems counter-intuitive for me, since the money connected to those coins have been already paid once (whether for mining them or via exchange). So in practice it's more like they've been actually paid for ~twice now, so the effect "should" be opposite.

If there was logic, it would be repeatable, and all those providing advice on said logic would be millionaires therefore doing something other than answering this very question.

Same goes for capital markets which is why only brokers and Warren Buffett "make money".

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#112

Post by wmf » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #101

Ologn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoins are absolutely worthless. If there is any sign of a tech bubble, it is these worthless hashes that people pay hundreds of dollars for. One of the genius aspects of the Bitcoin scam is the limited output and increasing difficulty as it goes on. This keeps the scam going longer. If it were like tulip bulbs, or subprime real estate, or pets.com type stocks, the bubble would eventually burst. With the types of b…

Bitcoins have value because they let you buy things.

You'd still be able to buy things if the exchange rate was 1 cent. Where's the rest of the value coming from?

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#113

Post by NAFV_P » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:58 PM UTC

deadfall wrote: post #87

They should try http://coinbase.com ($591.11 right now)

I've been watching [0] for the past ten minutes or so.

Fucking hell, individual instances of radon-222 are more predictable.

[0] http://bitcointicker.co

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#114

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:58 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #50

Surely this creates precedent of US government recognised legitimacy? While it might hurt the markets in the short run, i reckon it'll overall help bitcoin as a currency in the long term.

> Surely this creates precedent of US government recognised legitimacy?

It confirms that the government recognizes that bitcoins are real things which can be bought and sold, but that is both so patently obvious and so well established in legal actions that the government has taken around bitcoin already that confirming it is like confirming that the earth isn't flat.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#115

Post by smrtinsert » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:59 PM UTC

artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

That interface is inspired. Bollinger bands, slick dark theme, nice font, real time, restful url (looking at 4 hour right now)... very cool.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#116

Post by polshaw » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:59 PM UTC

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #89

artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

The volatility in the bitcoin price just demonstrates how the majority of the people trading it have no conception of how to value the underlying asset (i.e. demand for a low cost transaction system) and thus it is speculators leading speculators a la the blind leading the blind. The current sharp price decrease is because people are worried that whoever wins this auction (and the subsequent auction of DPR's coins) w…

It has very limited use as a serious transaction system while there is so much volatility. Prices are therefore pegged to local currencies, and if you want to keep that then it's no longer low cost because conversion to/from local currency costs just as much. The speculation and (eventually) deflationary nature of BTC significantly hinders the chances of it ever stabilising, and therefore a true 'bitcoin economy' emerging (ie. where people do not need to peg to or convert to local currencies).

Then there is the fact that it is not a limited good-- someone could quite easily come along with a BetterCoin making BTC almost useless-- there are various things that could be improved, eg privacy, or the slow confirmation times.

E: also, there will be an 'oversupply'-- Whoever buys these bitcoins won't be buying other BTC because of it -- it's irrational to think that the auction is creating a significant new demand that wouldn't have existed otherwise! Selling over weeks/months would still affect the price, although more in the normal supply/demand manner than causing a crash/panic. But that could be happening before any of these BTC are sold anyway!

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#117

Post by extrapolate » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 11:00 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #26

wmf wrote: post #12

Since you get a bill of sale from the US government I guess these will be the cleanest Bitcoins ever.

Street value of approx: $17,330,000 USD I'd wager it will sell for much less, likely 3/4 of that street price.

On the contrary, virtually no exchange can currently provide that kind of liquidity, so if someone is looking to be a Bitcoin bag-holder this is a great entry point. So I wouldn't be surprised if it went for > market value.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#118

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 11:00 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #37

ssharp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a great look for the BitCoin market if you can buy in bulk at 75%.

Not really. Seized properties often sell for less than half of the market value... doesn't mean the property is worth half now... it means the government can't be bothered to take on the responsibility of selling the property at full retail -- ie. they just want to get rid of the assets and move on.

[deleted]

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#119

Post by 13throwaway » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 11:00 PM UTC

Ologn wrote: post #97

artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

Bitcoins are absolutely worthless. If there is any sign of a tech bubble, it is these worthless hashes that people pay hundreds of dollars for. One of the genius aspects of the Bitcoin scam is the limited output and increasing difficulty as it goes on. This keeps the scam going longer. If it were like tulip bulbs, or subprime real estate, or pets.com type stocks, the bubble would eventually burst. With the types of b…

Do you believe that there are not any people who want an anonymous(Edit: pseudononymous), decentralized currency?

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#120

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 11:00 PM UTC

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #89

artursapek wrote: post #45

The price has tanked today as a result of this. http://cryptowat.ch/btce/btcusd/1hr/ Market started going crazy earlier today when DPR's seized coins started to move. https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN4... The downtrend is only accelerating.

The volatility in the bitcoin price just demonstrates how the majority of the people trading it have no conception of how to value the underlying asset (i.e. demand for a low cost transaction system) and thus it is speculators leading speculators a la the blind leading the blind. The current sharp price decrease is because people are worried that whoever wins this auction (and the subsequent auction of DPR's coins) w…

That is not an irrational consideration: a dump of such a large amount would definitely drop the price of bitcoin. So if the bidder for the coins can get a 20% discount on 16 million dollars, and then drop them of on the market gradually, he might make a 5% of the initial investment. If eh discount is larger, so would the profits. What the market is doing definitely affects the decision to do a bulk purchase and dump.

Addition: I once read that off-shore accounts and hidden illegal USD dollars are estimated in the trillions of dollars. If such amount of money were input into the system immediately, it would definitely tank the dollar in comparison to the EURO. Even worse, it would have way more side effects, like inflation and such ,that bitcoin doesnt have because its not a primary "currency".

It just takes a lot less to tank bitcoin than the dollar.