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After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

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41–50 of 53 posts

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#41
post #32

Who cares what software it runs, the interesting thing here is the memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memristor . If they manage to bring this to market, it'll really turn around their reputation as a company that's lost its R&D roots and become just another clone manufacturer. That's the bigger strategic move here: creating product differentiation using technology your competitors don't have.

Memristor's aren't the only interesting thing--they also said it would use new optical interconnect techology, which would contribute much of the speed and energy efficiency improvements.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#42

I've never used a piece of software from HP that I've thought was of any quality. We use several of their enterprise development tools where I work, due to an ancient contract and some political contrivances, and nobody is happy with them. And don't even get me started on their printer ride-alongs. It's just a printer, HP. I don't need 10 programs to use it.

hp was often really good for hardware, sometimes also for software.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#44

"operating system research which we think has been dormant or stagnant for decades" Is as much of a dig on unix/linux as windows, is it not?

I think it is more of a dig on academic operating systems research, which some say hasn't made any major breakthroughs since the 1980's, possibly because we have been stuck on the same architecture for so long.

IMO, the focus on Windows vs UNIX/Linux or HP vs MS is really missing the point though. If you build a computer as they are suggesting, using non-volatile memory without a deep memory hierarchy, and with an optical interconnect that enables low-latency memory access across a datacenter, then that changes a huge number of the assumptions that led to the operating systems we have now. In order to really take advantage of such a machine, you really need to invent new operating systems. You can hack Linux to run on it, which is what they said they are doing, but you will lose some of the benefits of the hardware because the architecture assumptions are baked into the fundamental design of existing OSes. File systems are one example that is easy to think about. Virtual memory. But consider anything that an OS does and how this new architecture changes it. Consider loading executables to start a process, for example. If there is no difference between memory and disk, then you don't even need to load executables into memory. All files would be memory-mapped in some huge global address space. Programs could jump from memory in one machine to a whole different machine (VM migration? HA?). It really changes everything. We would need new R&D, some of it very fundamental, in order to understand and build systems to take full advantage of such technology. That's all HP is saying in this announcement.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#45

Seems like a pretty sensational article. Using open-source technology is not an attempt to "destroy Windows," and I wouldn't classify memristors as "new technology," since they've been around since 2008 [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memristor

Memristors are new technology considering that you can't buy a computer that uses memristors yet.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#46

I don't want a "brand new operating system based on Linux". I just want it to be Linux. When companies say stuff like this it usually just means their gonna help themselves to all of the great free stuff everyone contributed and then make their machine a thorn in the community's side with all kinds of binary blob drivers that only work with one kernel/release.

I think HP has a bigger vision here. They aren't looking to build a new car, only this car has electric batteries, they want to build a plane. They announced two OS projects: a modified version of Linux that runs on this new machine, and an entirely new operating system based on fundamentally different assumptions. They only care about Linux as a stopgap, because it allows people to start using this machine while they come up with something better.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#47

I don't want a "brand new operating system based on Linux". I just want it to be Linux. When companies say stuff like this it usually just means their gonna help themselves to all of the great free stuff everyone contributed and then make their machine a thorn in the community's side with all kinds of binary blob drivers that only work with one kernel/release.

From a familiarity point of view so do I but progress in operating systems and languages hasn't moved on much for decades. Linux is the pragmatic solution for now and for some time to come but if my kids' kids are still using vim on a unix-like system to create software in a c-like language for an Intel compatible CPU architecture I am happy to entertain the possibility that we may have fucked up somewhere.

We badly need a Xerox Parc again doing stuff because they can and not because they must. So much technology came out of places like that and Bell Labs and we seem to have lost that.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#48

Couldn't they have come up with a better name for a super-smart computer than "The Machine?"

The head of HP Labs explained this in his talk. He said it is called "the machine" because 1) they are researchers, not marketing people, and 2) they started thinking of it as not just another server, but a whole new architecture that scales from phones to data centers (as in, THE machine, the only one you need).

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#49
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sad fact that the two dominant OSs these days are a copy of Unix and the bastard child of VMS. I'd love to see some fresh approaches to this old problem.

Oh, the old comparison of Windows NT and VMS. I never thought that was fair by a long shot. Are there some actual real evidence of NT/VMS similarities other than some of the original team members? EDIT: So you "really don't like Microsoft much". Maybe that's all I need to hear.

I was going to point out some, but mhurron did a much better job. One of the odd things I remember is that VMS had a version of Diskeeper that predates the NT version.

I don't like Microsoft, but I have no issue in recognizing their technical merits when they have some. I'm using a Microsoft keyboard right now and was, for a very long time, an MCSD. What people misinterpret as an anti-Microsoft bias is, usually, the effect of a wider perspective than the average Microsoft enthusiast.

Re: After Announcing Plans To Destroy Microsoft Windows, HP CEO Pulls A Gutsy Move

#50

I don't want a "brand new operating system based on Linux". I just want it to be Linux. When companies say stuff like this it usually just means their gonna help themselves to all of the great free stuff everyone contributed and then make their machine a thorn in the community's side with all kinds of binary blob drivers that only work with one kernel/release.

> I just want it to be Linux.

You shouldn't.

Linux is a member of a long lineage of operating systems that assume centralized processors connected by a slow bus to volatile memory that only temporarily holds information that needs to be backed up by other devices connected to buses much slower than memory. Every OS in current use is based on these ideas that haven't changed much since the 60's.

If you want, you may imagine Smalltalk running directly on metal with no OS underneath it, with all your data being just part of the image you work with. This is the kind of machine that this makes possible. This was, of course, done in the 80's with technology that was barely sufficient.

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