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All Our Patent Are Belong To You

teslamotors.com

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Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#191

Post by jcl »

rayiner wrote: post #169
wyager wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is the precise thing that patents are designed to prevent: to keep the market from turning into a race to see who can outsource most efficiently to China and inundate the public most completely with advertising. I have absolutely no idea how you possibly came to this conclusion.

When you make it easy to copy innovative designs, companies can really only compete on lower manufacturing costs and more advertising.[1] That's why engineering firms pushed for stronger IP protections through the WTO in the 1990's: Chinese and Korean companies were copying the designs of Cisco, etc, and undercutting them on prices because they didn't have any R&D expenses. [1] At least when you're talking about phys…

That's all true, but it still doesn't follow that patents themselves prevent competition on cost. For example, if a non-practicing patent holder licensed their patent to all interested parties, then the licensees must also compete on cost. So far as I can tell, patents were explicitly designed to allow that scenario, among others.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#192

Post by TeMPOraL »

shawnz wrote: post #181
ctdonath wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, step 1 is PR telling the world they can do what they thought they couldn't - use Tesla's patents for free. I'm sure lawyers are busily writing suitable legal agreements as we type, just to clarify obvious concerns. Without that PR, few would be asking permission.

Why wouldn't they get all their ducks in a row before the announcement, though?

Maybe they did and will send you long legal document if you mail them. This is just an announcement inviting you to contact them.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#193

Post by NicoJuicy »

It i were Google (and manufacturing cars) or Volvo (who also has a impressive driverless car: http://goo.gl/qWU7DS ).

I would go all in on this. A niche product (in the current condition) and usable driverless electric cars.

You aren't really competing with Tesla, because you have a total different audience.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#194

Post by TeMPOraL »

larrys wrote: post #141
chc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone subscribes to the theory that companies must have a grim and humorless face. I don't see why a lighthearted title is a bad thing. It's not like it's lowbrow or mean-spirited humor.

Why? Because it's not just being lighthearted. It appears to be bad use of english.

Bad use of english is purposeful - it's a meme, one of the oldest and most widely recognized on the Internet. He's just showing some humour (not the first time).

http://xkcd.com/286/ seems relevant here ;).

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#196

Post by mcb3k »

beamatronic wrote: post #154

Does Tesla want the big automakers to build cars with equal capabilities as the Model S? Assuming they did so, would they not be more cost-competitive due to economies of scale? Their mission of promoting sustainable transporation might be at odds with their fiduciary duty to their shareholders then. If Tesla really wanted to see the big auto makers build more capable electric cars, AND if they also want to be a prof…

Note that Tesla owns the super charging stations, and is also aiming to stand up a large scale battery production facility. Assuming that the patents would lead to other auto-manufacturers to use the same standards that Tesla uses, this would mean that the would need to either build their own batteries, or buy them from Tesla. Since Tesla is making the Gigafactory so that the price of batteries will drop, it's likely to be cheaper to buy them from Tesla than standing up their own infrastructure to handle it. So, even if they aren't selling as many cars as the big automakers, they can still sell batteries and access to the super charging stations to the big players.

In any case, I think a sufficient amount of people would probably still buy a Tesla because of the brand recognition, even if the big auto-makers were making solid electric cars.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#197

Post by hyp0 »

I love Elon's PR. He reframes himself as a champion of humanity, above ego competition, to make you feel good (and I do!). He simultaneously criticises the competition, in those terms.

And I also agree he was right to fear the better-resourced incumbents to duplicate his tech for free, unfounded though it was.

He doesn't mention this, but at this point, he is also well ahead of his real competition (fellow disruptors) in market terms, and so it won't harm him to release these patents.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#198

Post by superuser2 »

jeffh wrote: post #175
danielweber wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like everyone remembers when the US bought up and public-domained all the aeronautic patents. EDIT I should explicitly say that I am being sarcastic. Mr Tabarrok is believing what he wants to be true.

Most people are actually unaware of Ford's "innovations" on pay, or the reasoning behind them, but that does not dilute the profound impact the actions had.

It's 4th grade US history curriculum.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#199

Post by bshanks »

yonran wrote: post #178
andrewfong wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Tesla, I'd also request that the licensing party grant a reciprocal bulk license to Tesla as well. Or, barring that, that Tesla reserves the right to revoke the license if you initiate a patent lawsuit against it.

Does there exist such a patent license with no security holes? I would imagine that it would read, “License will be revoked if you 1) Sue me for patent infringement. 2) Sell a patent to a company that sues me for patent infringement (like Intellectual Ventures does). 3) Sponsor the development of a patent, and the owner of the patent sues me for patent infringement. 4) Contract with a patent pool that sues me for pat…

http://www.defensivepatentlicense.com/

(i'm not asserting it is perfect, just that it is an effort towards what you describe)

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#200

Post by bshanks »

yonran wrote: post #62
mwsherman wrote: post #39

There is no legal covenant here. I imagine Tesla’s definition of “good faith” is “we evaluate on a case by case basis”. Which amounts to “if we like you” and “we reserve the right”. If they wanted these patents to be open source, they would license them explicitly.

Intellectual Ventures is known to weaponize their patents by “selling” them to a company that does nothing but sue other people and can’t be sued for infringement. Is there any license that Tesla can write to open their patents but protect themselves in the case that another car maker uses Tesla’s patents but sells their own patents to a company that sues Tesla?

afaict http://www.defensivepatentlicense.com/ attempts to cover this case
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