All Our Patent Are Belong To You • Hacker News Board

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#81

Post by gambiting » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:50 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #56

smackfu wrote: post #2

"Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology." What exactly does that little "in good faith" clause mean in there?

People are optimistic but I'm with you. For example, using the Supercharger network requires that the automotive company offer energy for free for life to customers, and charge up front at the point of sale for all energy requirements for the life of the vehicle. That's Musk's business model and is enforcing it for anyone who wants to use his "open infrastructure". Which is bollocks to me: only wealthy people buying…

Well it will be simple - you can either buy a vehicle with a "supercharger" pack which is $X more,or you you can buy one without but then you can't use the superchargers. Then we will see what the market chooses - it might not be as clear as you think.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#82

Post by pnathan » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:50 PM UTC

I see this as essentially an open note to hardware tech companies asking them to come by and talk about licensing and interop deals without worrying that Tesla will be a hardcase about any possible IP infringement.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#83

Post by justinph » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

fishtoaster wrote: post #59

kevinchen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be on the receiving end of a PR shitstorm if they tried to enforce their patents after publishing this.

True, but if you were Gigantic Auto Manufacturer, would you build these patents into a billion-dollar factory without a stronger guarantee that Tesla won't about-face in 5-10 years? I wouldn't risk it.

No. But if you were Gigantic Auto Manufacturer, you'd probably have your lawyers talk to Tesla's lawyers and get something in writing first.

This is merely stating that Tesla is open to such things, not a legal guarantee.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#84

Post by lifeisstillgood » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

mwsherman wrote: post #39

There is no legal covenant here. I imagine Tesla’s definition of “good faith” is “we evaluate on a case by case basis”. Which amounts to “if we like you” and “we reserve the right”. If they wanted these patents to be open source, they would license them explicitly.

This seems to be the right amount of wriggle room.

A high profile company like Tesla is not going to want to be seen suing two high schools students using an electric motor to power their Tanzanian school. But they want to reserve the right to stop the White Supremecist Indy 500 team using the same engine.

Seems like the best of a bunch of good and bad choices

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#85

Post by ibrad » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

This is a bold move, and of course open to interpretation. But I am still optimistic about it. You can argue why they have patents in the first place, remember that if they didn't or sold it to a third party it will come back to bite their ass.

It is much better to hold the patent and allow others to used without being worried about getting sued. I am sure the big auto makers may consider taking advantage of this situation to crush tesla, but Elon Musk is known for not getting distracted by the petty things.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#86

Post by notahacker » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #2

"Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology." What exactly does that little "in good faith" clause mean in there?

"In good faith" means that when you write to Tesla asking to license their patented technology at no cost as promised by their CEO, their lawyers write back saying "OK, if as a sign of good faith you also agree to license your patents to Tesla at no cost".

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#87

Post by loganu » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #82

I see this as essentially an open note to hardware tech companies asking them to come by and talk about licensing and interop deals without worrying that Tesla will be a hardcase about any possible IP infringement.

That may not have been their intention, but that's what came to mind for me as well.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#88

Post by chc » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #74

peterarmstrong wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a meme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base

Thanks for pointing that out (I didn't know that). That said I think it's a bit immature and out of place in a public blog post (which will no doubt be repeated elsewhere) for such a visible company that wishes to be taken seriously.

Not everyone subscribes to the theory that companies must have a grim and humorless face. I don't see why a lighthearted title is a bad thing. It's not like it's lowbrow or mean-spirited humor.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#89

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:56 PM UTC

650REDHAIR wrote: post #67

kevinchen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be on the receiving end of a PR shitstorm if they tried to enforce their patents after publishing this.

Tesla has shown time and time again they don't mind PR shitstorms.

That's because they usually are on the right side of them.

Re: All Our Patent Are Belong To You

#90

Post by ajsharp » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 5:57 PM UTC

Interesting point:

> At Tesla, however, we felt compelled to create patents out of concern that the big car companies would copy our technology and then use their massive manufacturing, sales and marketing power to overwhelm Tesla. We couldn’t have been more wrong. The unfortunate reality is the opposite: electric car programs (or programs for any vehicle that doesn’t burn hydrocarbons) at the major manufacturers are small to non-existent, constituting an average of far less than 1% of their total vehicle sales.

I read this as effectively saying that it's easy for them to take this step, relative to companies in other industries (Apple, Google, Amazon, et al) because none of Tesla's competitors even have the ability to make use of their technology. Makes me wonder if Musk would have done the same thing if Tesla were a software company.