yes, you should sue the cia.
Why we're suing the CIA
21–30 of 81 posts
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#22Nice try, but likely nothing will happen. Even if a judge in a moment of insanity ruled in your favor, the CIA will simply say it's a national secret or whatever and nothing will change.
They have to prove it to a cleared judge in the very least.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of this is about democracy, but the freedoms of the constitution and a less corrupt system than some other countries. Corruption still exists heavily in America, but it's primarily focused on money and lobbies and whatnot.
It may not be directly associated to the democratic process for electing a government, but I think you'll find that it's still closely related to democracy in general. Democracy is fundamentally anchored on the idea that the legitimate right to govern derives from the people, not from the sword or from the blessing of a priest. This means that governments exist to serve the people, not the other way around. The freed…
Fun historical fact: In medieval Karantania[1] the "king" was appointed and crowned by the people. He still inherited his title and whatnot, but had to be approved by his people and a free peasant performed the coronation.
So, not a democracy, but right to govern still derives from the people. It has been done.
From wikipedia:
> The ritual was performed in the Slovene language by a free peasant who, selected by his peers, in the name of the people of the land questioned the new Prince about his integrity and reminded him of his duties. Later, when the Duchy of Carinthia had fallen to the Habsburgs, the idea that it was actually the people from whom the Duke of Carinthia received his legitimation was the basis of the Habsburgs' claim to the unique title of Archduke.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#24As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.
I wonder if we got to where we are now, with a much more open and free society, by pushing for it to be better, or postulating that it could be worse?
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#25As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.
I think you are speaking too soon.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Don't bother trying" -- great advice.
"Don't waste your time on this approach" isn't defeatist, it's saying you'll get a better outcome with another approach. There are lots of worthless activities that will change nothing, and a very few that are effective. It's important to think about how to invest. That said.. It's more helpful to hear alternate ideas than just "this won't work".
I see your point but I think it's still fair comment when the parent isn't suggesting a better approach, they're just saying "don't use this one".
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#27As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.
That may be because no one needs to be disappeared, because the plaintiff just won't win. Remember the Church Committee only managed to scratch the surface. So what makes you think that suddenly, now, there will be transparency and justice. And even if the court ruled for the plaintiff, what happens if the CIA refuses to comply? Who is gonna hold them to account? You? Congress? The president? LOL.
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#28As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.
Also, CIA != NSA. CIA are the people doing field work and writing intelligence assessments, NSA is doing mass surveillance/SIGINT. Believe it or not - they compete for funding and attention from their paymasters like any bureaucracy.
Doing "field work" like Odessa. http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/08/false-flag-in-odessa/
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#29Nice try, but likely nothing will happen. Even if a judge in a moment of insanity ruled in your favor, the CIA will simply say it's a national secret or whatever and nothing will change.
"Don't bother trying" -- great advice.
The parent didn't say "don't bother trying". They said it's not going to work. Definitely do it. But don't be shocked and surprised when it gets swept under the rug.
Edit: In fact it's important to do it, just so everyone can watch the system wrap it all up and dispose of it in full view. And then there will be less of the false choice inherent in "See how great our system is, you're allowed to criticise! Not like those Russians!"
Re: Why we're suing the CIA
#30As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.
I'm afraid that in a government of rampant spying, secret laws, secret courts, and secret gag letters, believing that people aren't being silenced because you don't hear about it requires your own personal leap of faith.
One of the strengths of the US Government is that they're smarter than to whisk people away in the middle of the night. That's why they're around and the KGB isn't. It remains to be seen whether that's a good thing or not.