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Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

lispm.de

11–20 of 94 posts

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#11
post #4

Sometimes I wonder how much better the computing would be if Lisp Machines had succeeded in the industry and UNIX never left the lab.

We'll all have a 10kg Lisp Machine, with full VGA (640x480) resolution running in our desktop right now!

And something like Gopher.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#12
post #4

Sometimes I wonder how much better the computing would be if Lisp Machines had succeeded in the industry and UNIX never left the lab.

Considering most of the Internet was developed under UNIX machines, the alternate universe would be almost unrecognizable, for good or bad.

That is wrong. Most of what the Internet is was already in place at Xerox PARC labs.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#13
post #4

Sometimes I wonder how much better the computing would be if Lisp Machines had succeeded in the industry and UNIX never left the lab.

Lisp Machines would have become cheap. Similar software divergence would happen. There would be an increased separation from normal people and programmers. Lisp would become a serious thing used by all programmers.

Or maybe another thing like UNIX would've replaced Lisp Machines quickly.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#15
that keyboard, along with the space cadet one, is an aberration.

It is too complex for novices, with too many keys. And not optimal to the initiated, as key combinations are much more efficient.

anyone with the slightest ergonomic knowledge cringe just by glancing at those things.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#16
post #15

that keyboard, along with the space cadet one, is an aberration. It is too complex for novices, with too many keys. And not optimal to the initiated, as key combinations are much more efficient. anyone with the slightest ergonomic knowledge cringe just by glancing at those things.

An important point of the article: lisp machines were design for the elite professionals.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering most of the Internet was developed under UNIX machines, the alternate universe would be almost unrecognizable, for good or bad.

That is wrong. Most of what the Internet is was already in place at Xerox PARC labs.

And a whole lot was done on PDP-10s, which were in many ways the first Lisp Machines. DEC asked various groups including AI researchers what they needed when designing the PDP-6, which was essentially the PDP-10 prototype, and its 36 bit word size (common back then, because that was enough to encode 10 decimal digits, the pre-computer standard for scientific calculations) was matched with a 18 bit word addressed address space, so one word could be a natural CONS cell, and there were useful instructions for that.

In the fullness of time, long after 1963, 18 bits of 36 bit words totaling 1 MiB of 9 bit bytes was crippling, but that much memory was at the time unimaginable. MIT's proposal some time later to have a full address space of memory built was a big thing, some said it couldn't be done.

Which gets into one big difference between Xerox PARC Altos and their software and UNIX(TM) for the first decade or so: they were seriously constrained by memory. Altos were 16 bit machines, also word addressed, so a total of 128 KiB, although they had a bank switching feature. The bigger PDP-11s had a split Instruction and Data (I&D) feature so that a program could have 64 KiB of code, and due to the MMU, 58 KiB of data and 8 KiB of stack, also for a total of 128 KiB, although you could get fancy with overlays as BSD 2.x did to support TCP/IP.

I believe this resulted in significant differences in software and system design, e.g. part of MIT's going for The Right Thing was using systems with large (for the time) address spaces. Whereas the smaller systems PARC and UNIX systems required more compromises, although occasionally that had good results, e.g. UNIX pipelines and the conventions that developed from them.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#18
post #4

Sometimes I wonder how much better the computing would be if Lisp Machines had succeeded in the industry and UNIX never left the lab.

Considering most of the Internet was developed under UNIX machines, the alternate universe would be almost unrecognizable, for good or bad.

It is a bit more nuanced than that, ARPANet was a lot of DEC machines, USC and USC-ISI had a number of DEC-10's on the network. Usenet was however primarily a bunch of UNIX (or UNIX like) machines. They traded in their modems for nifty connections to the Internet and carried a lot of the same protocols with them. Much of the Internet protocols were developed in college labs with the ability to 'plug in' different UNIX configurations (the BSD sockets stuff) and since the code was tested well on UNIX was often the operating system on the machine that connected someone to the emerging Internet at the time. Lisp systems were popular for research, but were not used extensively for networking research. I expect it was in part a compatibility issue with BSD's socket stuff (where a lot of research was happening).

A more interesting alternate history for me would be if the folks doing system research had settled on a functional language like Haskell rather than a procedural one like C, what would our APIs look like today. I say that because I suspect that using C as a the language of choice was more influential than the OS of choice.

Re: Ergonomics of the Symbolics Lisp Machine

#20

Site's down, here's a pastebin of the text: http://pastebin.com/6kkCTgjg Neither archive.org nor Google Cache have this. Weird. Video from article: http://vimeo.com/83886950 Image 1: http://i.imgur.com/r62FSfE.jpg Image 2: http://i.imgur.com/xsxutc3.png Image 3: http://i.imgur.com/zL9DFbr.png

> Video from article: http://vimeo.com/83886950

The things that stood out to me were that a) boy, it was a slow system. Sure vi etc are more spartan, but even back then I'd imagine the were significantly faster than this Lisp machine. b) mouse was clearly the hot new thing, it is used lot more than what I think would be optimal.

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