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Ted Kennedy has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#141

Post by hughprime »

muriithi wrote: post #44

What I can gather from his Wikipedia page is that Kennedy, like Clinton was a good politician but a consummate womaniser. I have always wondered why citizens expect politicians to be 'moral' and whether 'immoral' politicians are necessarily bad leaders?

Politicians have a lot of power, and that power can easily be misused. All other things being equal, I'd much prefer to elect an honest politician with strong moral fibre to a dishonest one with few scruples.

If a guy can't resist the temptation to break a promise he made to his wife for the sake of a few cheap kicks, it's less likely that he can resist the temptation to, say, hand out political favours to his favourite campaign donors.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#143

Post by cwan »

patio11 wrote: post #26
fretlessjazz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10,000 swimming pools at once?

The comment was probably in reference to the incident at Chappaquiddick rather than a suggestion that one would be more effective at saving lives as a lifeguard than as a Senator wielding enormous influence. In the version of events most favorable to Kennedy, he suffered a tragic lapse in judgment (failing to summon aid) which compounded the results of an unfortunate auto accident, and a young woman drowned as a resu…

An older profile of Ted Kennedy by GQ in 1990 - "A Sober Look at Ted Kennedy" by the late Michael Kelly: http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5585

Not a flattering portrayal at all of Kennedy the man. Then again, not a great legislative record either - from Reason - Ted Kennedy and the Death (Hopefully) of an Era: http://reason.com/news/show/135658.html

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#144

Post by blasdel »

aquateen wrote: post #95
blasdel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Ted was a pretty cool guy, eh garnered appropriations and doesn't afraid of anything , I don't think anyone could really live up to his brothers. John was an order of magnitude greater, and Bobby was at least an order of magnitude greater than that! Bobby was everything Obama aspires to be and more. His assassination was probably the worst event of '68 -- and a fuckton of awful shit happened that year: the crus…

How are you quantifying greatness? Everyone on this site loves to say "order of magnitude."

It lets you specify scale without any unwanted precision

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#145

Post by [deleted] »

gloob wrote: post #107
rogerthat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see any possible explanation for why a public figure such as Ted Kennedy would have wanted to walk away from the scene of that accident? Isn't it the most human response, to walk away ashamed of what you have done? Don't you think he regretted it, probably for the rest of his life? And now I would ask you, have you ever done anything you didn't intend to that you were ashamed of?

Most of those questions could probably be applied to anyone who was committed a crime.

[deleted]

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#146

Post by protomyth »

kingkawn wrote: post #134

If still alive he'd be a major force for passing the kind of healthcare legislation that could have liberated Americans from employer-provided insurance as the only option. This would have freed a great deal of energy for risks like starting a business. That he became sick and died now is a a loss of leadership in the effort to make the dynamism of entrepreneurship, among other things, available to more people.

The government is treaty-obligated to provide health care to a section of the population and are doing a offensive job. If they can't do it right for ~7 million Native Americans, what chance do they have to do it right for the rest of the USA?

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#147

Post by kingkawn »

protomyth wrote: post #146
kingkawn wrote: post #134

If still alive he'd be a major force for passing the kind of healthcare legislation that could have liberated Americans from employer-provided insurance as the only option. This would have freed a great deal of energy for risks like starting a business. That he became sick and died now is a a loss of leadership in the effort to make the dynamism of entrepreneurship, among other things, available to more people.

The government is treaty-obligated to provide health care to a section of the population and are doing a offensive job. If they can't do it right for ~7 million Native Americans, what chance do they have to do it right for the rest of the USA?

They do it right for veterans, and they even do it fairly well for the elderly. Why not everyone else?

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#148

Post by protomyth »

kingkawn wrote: post #147
protomyth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is treaty-obligated to provide health care to a section of the population and are doing a offensive job. If they can't do it right for ~7 million Native Americans, what chance do they have to do it right for the rest of the USA?

They do it right for veterans, and they even do it fairly well for the elderly. Why not everyone else?

From personal experience of friends, they mess up a lot of veterans' lives, and that, in my mind, is a serious breach of trust. Look at the recent scandals in the VA for incidents.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#149

Post by ErrantX »

unalone wrote: post #130
ErrantX wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly the Ted Kennedy that died today was not the Ted Kennedy that once abandoned a dying woman. In my experience that is a fallacy. Besides he was a politician - they know all about expected response. I don't think anyone here can make a statement like that. (I know nothing about him, but it was a pretty sick thing to do. He certainly deserved a worse punishment)

He did. But avoiding punishment for that crime does not immediately make him a terrible human being, or a human being that's incapable of changing. He certainly changed, and for the better. (I'll ignore the "he was a politician" quip, which proves nothing and says nothing.)

> (I'll ignore the "he was a politician" quip, which proves nothing and says nothing.

That wasn't meant in the way you probably read it. Being a politician is a skill just like any job

As I said I don't know much about the guy, but in my experience of people in such a position (a public post) there is a difference between real change and the change we see :)

I'm just saying: only a few people (i.e. the close family) really could make a statement like that :)

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#150

Post by kingkawn »

protomyth wrote: post #148
kingkawn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do it right for veterans, and they even do it fairly well for the elderly. Why not everyone else?

From personal experience of friends, they mess up a lot of veterans' lives, and that, in my mind, is a serious breach of trust. Look at the recent scandals in the VA for incidents.

Seriously even with the scandals the veterans' lives are not peachy until they hit the VA. Iraq?

I was in and out of a lot of Veterans hospitals when I worked in an ambulance, they have fantastic care if you give it some context with the rest of the healthcare system.

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