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Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

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Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#21

Post by jacquesm »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

Yes paypal 'sucks'. But the problem is not that it sucks. The problem is to do better. And it is quite possible that anybody that has ever tried to do better ended up with something that sucked even more than paypal.

Combating fraud is hard, at scale with half the worlds petty criminals seeing you as the obstacle between them and their victims you're in for a rough ride.

I wouldn't judge them too harshly. (Even if I personally will never use them ever again I do appreciate the kind of issues they have to deal with.)

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#22

Post by Omniusaspirer »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

How much new can they really do as a payment processor?

I'm sure there's some little things they could dabble in but realistically the only things people want from Paypal are less fees, less account closures/theft from account holders, faster transfers and overall better customer support.

Paypal doesn't need to innovate, they need to fix the obvious issues that relegate their service to a "barely workable until the instant someone better comes along" paradigm.

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#23

Post by 001sky »

Karunamon wrote: post #17
tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

They don't need to even do anything new feature-wise; they need CS that doesn't suck goat cheese through a coffee stirrer. If I call in with a problem, give me someone that can both answer my questions and put fingers on the keyboard and fix said problem. Not really that hard. No more indian call centers, no more useless CS, no more hiding need-to-know information behind the all-consuming veil of "fraud protection" (…

CS is expensive and the margins on micro-transactions is small.

Think about the order of magnitude:

(1) An average 2.5% transaction fee on a $100 dollar e-bay transaction is US$2.50 in revenue.

(2) The cost of sending someone a "paper bill" in the mail (fully amortized) is approximately US$2.00, or 80% of the revenue from a $100 sale.

(3) at $8.50/hour, a minimum wage worker would expend >80% of revenue by spending 15 minutes to help you.

(4) A "quick fix" with a paper-trail (2+3 above)quickly turns the transaction negative ($2+2=$4>$2.50) at the margin.

(5) Since every fix is an instant loss, profit maximization implies "fix minimization"--at least as one component of strategy.

(Disclaimer: This is all made up math.)

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#24

Post by DigitalSea »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

This is a problem with most large companies. Once you reach a certain size, you encounter problems with scaling. Paypal is such a big company the only way they and other companies like them innovate is by acquiring other companies and teams because it's cheaper and easier.

The amount of friction within a company like Paypal I would imagine is quite high. Not even those at the top of companies like these can change things at the flick of a switch. Things move very slowly in large companies, this is why smaller startups are able to come along and shake things up so easily before being acquired. It is how it is.

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#25

Post by mburns »

asdfologist wrote: post #19
bmm6o wrote: post #11

Maybe I'm being nit-picky, I wish we would stop using "poaching" to refer to the (legal) hiring of a person already employed at another company. Actual poaching is illegal, conversely anti-"poaching" pacts are collusive and illegal.

Source? According to Merriam-Webster, to poach means "to attract (as an employee or customer) away from a competitor". No indication of illegality here.

It's the very next definition of the page you are quoting.

Poach (verb) "to trespass for the purpose of stealing game; also : to take game or fish illegally"

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#26

Post by panarky »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

PayPal and eBay are hugely vulnerable. They've underinvested in infrastructure, their technology is old, and they've become slow and bureaucratic. Worst of all, their ideas are stale and the user experience is dreadful.

PayPal's fat margins aren't justified by the service they provide, only by the lack of alternatives. But new alternatives are launching much faster than eBay can respond.

Square has become a well-run, genuine alternative. BitPay / Coinbase are still very small, but the cryptocurrency wildcard at least shines a light on what money transfer should cost.

Amazon is quietly expanding their payments footprint. The famous Bezos quote seems appropriate here: "Your margins are my opportunity."

Apple exposing their Touch ID API will level the playing field, exposing PayPal to more competition and margin pressure. Look out if Apple starts using their billion-credit-card database to get into payments themselves.

If Facebook/Whatsapp can payment-enable messaging and do it at a lower cost, PayPal's raison d'etre starts looking pretty questionable.

And now eBay leaking personally-identifiable information on 150 million customers isn't helping maintain trust or brand image. The breach couldn't have happened at a worse time.

We could be looking at the Blockbusterization of eBay and PayPal. The stock price is starting to reflect this reality, so look for more key people to leave in coming months.

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#27

Post by logicallee »

bmm6o wrote: post #11

Maybe I'm being nit-picky, I wish we would stop using "poaching" to refer to the (legal) hiring of a person already employed at another company. Actual poaching is illegal, conversely anti-"poaching" pacts are collusive and illegal.

>I wish we would stop using "poaching" to refer to the (legal) hiring of a person already employed at another company

But that's what it means...? Or do you mean like in the literal sense, like is your comment about illegally hunting wild animals? (which nobody would ever confuse for a second.)

If you are talking about the same thing everyone else is (hiring) then what do you mean by "actual poaching is illegal"? I am trying to really give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know what you're talking about, but I just can't make heads or tails of your comment...

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#28

Post by logicallee »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15

How is it that so many seemingly incredible people come out of PayPal, and PayPal still sucks so much? The all-star list is insane, it keeps growing, and yet PayPal still that can't seem to do anything new.

How can so many great scientists come out of Eastern Europe, and Easern Europe still sucks so much?

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#29

Post by tehwebguy »

001sky wrote: post #23
Karunamon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to even do anything new feature-wise; they need CS that doesn't suck goat cheese through a coffee stirrer. If I call in with a problem, give me someone that can both answer my questions and put fingers on the keyboard and fix said problem. Not really that hard. No more indian call centers, no more useless CS, no more hiding need-to-know information behind the all-consuming veil of "fraud protection" (…

CS is expensive and the margins on micro-transactions is small. Think about the order of magnitude: (1) An average 2.5% transaction fee on a $100 dollar e-bay transaction is US$2.50 in revenue. (2) The cost of sending someone a "paper bill" in the mail (fully amortized) is approximately US$2.00, or 80% of the revenue from a $100 sale. (3) at $8.50/hour, a minimum wage worker would expend >80% of revenue by spending 1…

I assumed your parent was talking about customer service from a vendor perspective, which makes more sense. At a certain volume threshold ($5k / mo? $10k? I forget) the customer service experience absolutely improves, but not enough.

Re: Facebook poaches PayPal president David Marcus to run Messenger

#30

Post by asdfologist »

mburns wrote: post #25
asdfologist wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? According to Merriam-Webster, to poach means "to attract (as an employee or customer) away from a competitor". No indication of illegality here.

It's the very next definition of the page you are quoting. Poach (verb) "to trespass for the purpose of stealing game; also : to take game or fish illegally"

That's the wrong definition though. Humans are not "game".
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